NeXT Computers

NeXT Computer, Inc. => Black Hardware => Topic started by: jdemas on June 07, 2010, 12:31:11 am

Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: jdemas on June 07, 2010, 12:31:11 am
I've gone through a lot of posts to see what LCD monitors work well with the NextStation TurboColor ADB.

There are some LCD monitors that image with the ADB computers... BUT they stretch the vertical image so that the recycler and bottom of the screen are running off the viewable area and also exhibit distortion of the image.

So, does anyone have actual experience with a 19-24" LCD monitor that works with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB... and perfectly... with no stretching or distortion of the image at all... just as if it were a NeXT monitor?  (so displayed images, text and drawing all look true and accurate)

Thanks.

-- Jim

PS... I'll point out that I don't mind if there are black bars or unused space on the monitor... I just don't want any distortion or stretching of the image.  Along with the model number, it would be really great if someone can post a picture showing the screen display of an LCD that works great.
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: sdinet on June 07, 2010, 03:59:24 am
my Dell 2009W works perfectly!
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: jdemas on June 07, 2010, 02:40:03 pm
Thanks sdinet!

I have a couple of other questions... as I want to order something right away and want to make sure I don't make a mistake...

1)  Are you running an ADB NeXTstsation TurboColor?  (if not, what are you running?)

2) I just checked at Dell and they make two 2009 models... the 2009W and the 2009WFP.  Just to doublecheck... yours is the 2009W?

3) I need to know that when a circle is imaged, it is a circle and not an oval.  You've got perfect imaging with no distortion or bleeding?  

4) Are there black borders just on the left and right... or is there a black border all the way around?

5) A 13w3 to VGA connector and VGA gender changer is necessary to work with the NeXT Y cable. Do you know whose connectors you used and where you got them?  Did they have to be modified or have any pins removed to work?

Thank you very much.  I appreciate your help.

-- Jim
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: sdinet on June 07, 2010, 03:23:11 pm
1> Yes I have tested it via an ADB Turbo Color

2> I says 2009Wt on the back, my e207wfp also works too!

3> The circle is a perfect circle and is 1:1

4> There are black borders all around (about 0.5" on top and bottom, and 1.5" on the sides)

5> I recommend a 12" pigtail-style adapter I found on ebay, it is 13w3 Female to VGA Male.
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: jdemas on July 14, 2010, 12:22:05 am
I have now tried a number of Dell monitors with my NeXTstation TurboColor ADB... and will report what I have found out.  Note that my unit is a last generation NeXTstation TurboColor with ADB keyboard and soundbox and 72hz vertical sync (earlier non-ADB units are 68hz vertical sync).

One of the requirements of a monitor to work with the NeXT is that is must sync on green (SOG).  The Dell monitors I will mention do all list their ability to sync on green.

First... I bought a Dell 2009wt per the above recommendation.  It is 1680x1050 resolution.  It imaged... was very grainy and not at all well defined as per the NeXT displays (like my 21" before it developed a bad power supply) . Worse yet, the image was elongated to the point where the recycler at the bottom of the dock was virtually off the screen at the bottom (barely visible)... and the bottom of full length windows was not visible, either.  Note: I have a full dock... 13 items on my dock... so it runs the full length of the screen height.

My guess is that the previous poster tried the monitor with a TurboColor... but the original soundbox and keyboard and not the ADB soundbox and keyboard (instead of the 72hz sync rate of the ADB soundbox, the original soundboxes have a 68hz sync rate... and seem to work fine with non-NeXT monitors). In fact, I even ordered a 13w3 to VGA Sun adapter per the poster's recommendation from a link he sent me from eBay.  

I am very appreciative of the help he offered... but my guess is that he just did not notice that the image was bleeding off the bottom (if his dock was not filled, he would not have noticed it... and if he did not have a full length window open, it would not be noticed, either).  

The monitor has the ability to display what the signal is that it is getting.  It is interesting to find that the monitor said it was imaging the signal from the NeXT as 1024x768 at 72hz.  It could not see the full resolution of 1120x832 at 72hz.  This monitor clearly does not work properly with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB.

Second... I bought a 1907fp which is a 1280x1024 monitor.  The image also appeared grainy... and did the same thing in terms of  stretching the image vertically as the 2009wt did... and lost the recycler at the bottom and lost the bottom of full length windows.  It is interesting to find that it also said it was imaging the signal from the NeXT as 1024x768 at 72hz... same as the other monitor.  Again, it could not see the full resolution of 1120x832 at 72hz. This monitor clearly does not work properly with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB.

Third... I bought a Dell 2007fp which is a 1600x1200 monitor as it has an option in the display settings for 1:1 reproduction (unlike the other monitors already mentioned).  Figuring that this was exactly what was needed to properly image whatever signal the NeXT was sending it... I had high hopes.  In 1:1, the monitor does image in the right aspect ratio... so there are large black borders all around the image... but the bleeding of the dock and the bottom of windows at the bottom of the imaged area is still present... same as if it is full screen and stretching the image! It is interesting to find that it also said it was imaging the signal from the NeXT as 1024x768 at 72hz.  Again ,not 1120x832 at 72hz.  It can't see the NeXT resolution properly, so part of the image is not viewable. This monitor clearly does not work properly with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB, either.  

This 2007fp is, by far, the best of the three monitors in terms of what the image looks like.  I also has the tightest dot pitch of the three at .255.  It is the crispest of the three... especially at 1:1... but the image is pretty small... and there is still the bleeding desktop off the bottom of the imaged area to contend with.

There are guys who have gotten flat panels to work well but they are all using non-ADB soundboxes and keyboards from what I have seen.  I am not the only one to see the bleeding issue with non-NeXT monitors... Rob Blessin at Black Hole has experienced this bleeding issue, too, with ADB units and non-NeXT monitors.  He's been a great help in looking at things with me, too.  If you ever need NeXT stuff... I highly recommend him.

Thus far... it seems that getting a flat panel to work with the NeXTstation TurboColor with ADB soundbox and ADB keyboard is an elusive proposition.

So... I am not sure where to go with this now.  Do I try a different 13w3 to VGA adapter?  Could this Sun adapter be the issue?  It is part number 530-2917... which I purchased here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290310020481&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

This is sure frustrating...

-- Jim
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: Thomas on August 07, 2010, 10:10:06 am
It seems others have the same issue.  :shock:
I found a pretty big list of monitors that have been tested for SOG here: Linux for PlayStation 2 Community Sync on Green Monitor DB (http://ps-2.kev009.com:8081/sog/)

It lists if the monitor was tested working or tested not working with sync on green.

And I also found some interesting posts on how to get every monitor to work: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/55566-3-sync-green-adapter

And here is an instruction how to build your own sync splitter: Xbox VGA HOWTO (http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Xbox_VGA_HOWTO)
While it is for the Xbox it might give some helpfull hints.

My search also turned up some of the shelf sync splitter that should work just fine (they even mention NeXT):
7053 sync separator - sync on green to separate (http://www.si87.com/servlet/Detail?no=308)
7052 sync converter - composite to separate (http://www.si87.com/servlet/Detail?no=307)
They are both 99 USD but I think I'll give it a try. I just need to find out which is the right one.
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: Thomas on August 08, 2010, 02:24:07 am
OK, I have an old Dell 2001FP that seems to work just with the Sun 13W3 to VGA adapter. Though my system doesn't boot and right now I only get through the system tests. But that screen is displayed perfectly.
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: Thomas on August 08, 2010, 02:57:55 am
Update:
I can confirm that the Dell 2001FP works also in color mode without distortion and edge to edge (no black stripes). But that is still only in the first color installation screen (the one where you select languages and software packages)
Title: Re: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB
Post by: t-rexky on February 26, 2011, 02:08:43 pm
Quote from: "jdemas"I've gone through a lot of posts to see what LCD monitors work well with the NextStation TurboColor ADB.

There are some LCD monitors that image with the ADB computers... BUT they stretch the vertical image so that the recycler and bottom of the screen are running off the viewable area and also exhibit distortion of the image.

So, does anyone have actual experience with a 19-24" LCD monitor that works with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB... and perfectly... with no stretching or distortion of the image at all... just as if it were a NeXT monitor?  (so displayed images, text and drawing all look true and accurate)

Thanks.

-- Jim

PS... I'll point out that I don't mind if there are black bars or unused space on the monitor... I just don't want any distortion or stretching of the image.  Along with the model number, it would be really great if someone can post a picture showing the screen display of an LCD that works great.


This is a bit of an old post, but I just went through a lot of effort trying to resurrect my ADB TurboColor Station and found a great monitor solution in the process.  My Sony manufactured color monitor was dead after many years in the garage - the dreaded HV protection circuit was cutting it out  a few seconds after power-on.  I tried fixing it, but could not find a sufficiently representative schematic.  Ultimately it got recycled, and I spent a very long time researching LCD panels.  And as a side note - tech support at all of major monitor manufacturers is utterly useless in dealing with this type of an unusual request.

I focused on 19" 1280x1024 monitors, as they are the closest to what the NeXT puts out.  First up were my Dell UltraSharp 1907FP and my ViewSonic VP930b - both failed with stretched and cropped image.  I believe that most of the consumer grade monitors WILL NOT WORK, since they only accept VESA standard resolutions.  So then I moved in the direction of EIZO, but could not find anything reasonably priced.  Finally I started looking at NEC branded displays.  Long story short - I now have a NEC MultiSync LCD 1980sx and it works 100%, with perfect sync and 1:1 pixel accuracy (centred with slight black borders).  It can also fill the whole display with the NeXT image, but this breaks the aspect ratio and is not quite as sharp.

Here is how I adjusted the monitor, since the auto adjust function was at first cropping the image:

1. Activate the 'Advanced OSM' by turning ON the monitor with the front "POWER" button while pressing the "SELECT" button.
2. Navigate to OSM menu item '9' and press "SELECT" on the 'MODE' item.
3. Adjust to set the NeXT display resolution of 1120 by 832.
4. Power the monitor OFF and then back ON with the front "POWER" button.
5. Navigate to OSM menu item 'AUTO' and select 'AUTO ADJUST'.
6. Enjoy a 1:1 pixel perfect display from your NeXT, or modify the scaling to fill the whole display.

I am sure that this will work for both ADB and also non-ADB machines.  I am also convinced that ALL NEC MultiSync LCD monitors that are specified to support 1280x1024 "at 60 Hz to 75 Hz", sync-on-green and have the 'Advanced OSM' menu can be adjusted the same way.

I hope this saves some time and aggravation to people looking for replacement monitors.
Title: Re: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB
Post by: cubist on March 09, 2011, 08:08:21 am
I picked up one of these for my NextDimension and this looks very good.  While my LCD has the same designation, the steps I went through were a bit different:
[list=1]
Title: Re: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB
Post by: t-rexky on March 09, 2011, 11:22:39 am
Quote from: "cubist"I picked up one of these for my NextDimension and this looks very good.  While my LCD has the same designation, the steps I went through were a bit different:
[list=1]
  • Power up system and monitor.
  • Hit 'Exit' to get to OSM display.
  • Select Tab '9' and set resolution to 1120 by 832.
  • Select Tab '7' then 'Expansion Mode' and turn off all expansion.
  • Select Tab '4' and select the 'Auto Adjust' function.  Monitor will fiddle with frame and it should be correctly centered.
  • There's also a 'Fine' control to adjust positioning to help get rid of any text blur.[/list:o][/color]

    Yes, there's a lot of black border with that but the text imaging is the best I've seen on an LCD so far.  The NEC is quite a good monitor.


Interesting - it looks like your monitor somehow defaults to the advanced OSM mode.  Mine will not enable the numerical (advanced) tab menus unless I hold 'SELECT' while pressing the front 'POWER' switch first.  Without that I just get the standard OSM menu that does not allow entry of the exact pixel resolution.

Really glad that the monitor works well for you!
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: nextchef on March 23, 2011, 07:21:56 pm
I have had good luck with older 18in SUN LCD panels, both the lsa800 and the newer GH18PS, using 13w3 to VGA adapters and gender changers.  They are getting harder to find, and are obviously used, but they do work well.
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: sdinet on January 01, 2013, 04:44:57 pm
I now this is an OLD post, but jdemas did your Dell 2009wt look like mine below?  I don't see the elongated image or sheeting or cut-off you describe...  Asking, because I am recommending an LCD to a friend and want to ensure it works for their NeXTcube Dimension.

Thanks!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-THlh805Qu3U/UOMSXvepziI/AAAAAAAADS0/Acg-keUQ7iw/s1024/DSC_0821.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lvA8_5fxwLA/UOMS2pgMo4I/AAAAAAAADUA/o-0aJ9fE_HA/s912/100_1273.JPG)
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: pitz on January 02, 2013, 06:15:27 pm
From what I remember reading and also experienced, the cropping was due to the combination of a TurboColor and an ADB soundbox (something about having an ADB bus needing to change the sync frequency).  I don't think the NextDimension board had the problem.

IIRC, I had a different NEC LCD monitor but it did not have the same OSM controls to set the 1120x832 resolution, so I still had the cropping issue.
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: barcher174 on January 20, 2013, 09:51:01 am
I am using an NEC multisync 1990SX with an ADB nextstation color and it works great. There is a 1/2 inch black bar at the top of the screen, but I don't find it bothersome. A huge step up from my dim CRT!

--
Brian
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: darkcruix on August 14, 2013, 09:15:00 pm
Hi, I wanted to share my experience on TFT screens for the NeXTstation TurboColor.
I tried many flavors of the Dell branded TFT screens (1908f, 20", 22", 24") but all of them had the one or the other issue (fuzzy screen, cropping, blurry lines). Recently I bough a used NEC 1980SX from ebay and used the described method above to adjust it.
I am blown away - the OS never looked better before. Perfect screen - super crisp and only a 1 inch black line on each side (and you can live with it, when you see the display result).
I can only suggest - get the NEC Multisync 1980SX.

// submitted using my NeXTstation TurboColor
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: NeXTsociety on August 15, 2013, 12:14:39 am
Quote from: "darkcruix"Hi, I wanted to share my experience on TFT screens for the NeXTstation TurboColor.
I tried many flavors of the Dell branded TFT screens (1908f, 20", 22", 24") but all of them had the one or the other issue (fuzzy screen, cropping, blurry lines). Recently I bough a used NEC 1980SX from ebay and used the described method above to adjust it.
I am blown away - the OS never looked better before. Perfect screen - super crisp and only a 1 inch black line on each side (and you can live with it, when you see the display result).
I can only suggest - get the NEC Multisync 1980SX.

// submitted using my NeXTstation TurboColor


What web browser are you using on your NeXT to access NeXTComputers.org?

TJ
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: darkcruix on August 15, 2013, 09:29:28 am
Hi,

I am using OmniWeb 3.0b8b
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: mikeboss on August 17, 2013, 07:12:25 am
right now I'm in the process of acquiring a NEC MultySync 1980FXi (this is the successor of the 1980SX). I'll let you know if this particular model also gives a pixel-perfect picture when connected to black hardware.

also, there were new models announced by EIZO a few weeks back. the model FlexScan S1923 might be an option in the future. I particularly like them for having an LED backlight.

http://www.eizo.com/global/press/releases/htmls/s2133_s1923_s1903.html
http://www.eizo.com/global/products/flexscan/s1923/index.html#tab01
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: mikeboss on August 23, 2013, 02:44:31 pm
I can confirm that the NEC MultiSync LCD1980FXi gives an absolutely stunning and pixel-perfect picture when connected to a NeXT system. plus, it looks quite NeXT-ish design-wise, if one gets the black model like I did. and they're cheap: I got mine for only 15 bucks (swiss francs).


(http://www.esm-computer.de/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x600/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/1/9/1980fxi_black_481ba8d5c967644dbc84038c95e1dd17/esm-computer.de-48,3cm-(19-zoll)-tft-nec-multisync-lcd-1980fxi-schwarz--dvi-vga-s-ips-panel-1005323-30.jpg)
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: helf on January 23, 2014, 04:18:11 am
I haven't posted in quite some time, but I thought I would chime in.

The Eizo L675 can be had for dirt on eBay and it works perfectly with NeXTs. I had a black one and the design cues even fit wonderfully

http://www.flickr.com/photos/helfer/4283277107/
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: gaspar on April 29, 2014, 06:43:08 am
I just ordered the 1980Fxi. Will report back to the forum.
This issue with display hardware is new to me. I had a big a55 Next monitor that didn't wake up and now in monitor heaven...
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: gaspar on May 11, 2014, 08:44:32 pm
Confirmed. 1980Fxi worked "out of the box"
Nextstep looks so beautiful in a modern LCD!! Wow.. I was used to the dim Sony monitor..

I'm happy again!  

I have a turbo slab (color) with ADB. Worked perfectly without even configuring a thing..

Quote from: "gaspar"I just ordered the 1980Fxi. Will report back to the forum.
This issue with display hardware is new to me. I had a big a55 Next monitor that didn't wake up and now in monitor heaven...
Title: LCD monitor for NeXT turbocolor
Post by: kohlman on June 27, 2016, 12:13:48 pm
Happy again after next monitor stopped working.
I confirm that NEC TFT 1990 FXp works perfectly.
found on ebay.
Used Sun's adapter cable.

Thanks for all Your suggestions
Title: 3dkit?
Post by: rey on March 23, 2017, 04:38:26 pm
Nice ..Is that the 3d kit ?  Pixar Renderman!

I used the 3d kit for a NeXTstep project at SFSU back in 1995 at their NeXT Lab where they had a ton of different workstations...Even the cube hooked up to a giant NeXT monitor which I have yet to see in these forums.

Sad I heard the NeXT Lab was retired and I have no idea where all that awesome black hardware went. Hopefully to the black hole and not the recycle center.
Title: Re: 3dkit?
Post by: NeXTnewbe on March 23, 2017, 07:40:20 pm
Quote from: "rey"Nice ..Is that the 3d kit ?  Pixar Renderman!

..Even the cube hooked up to a giant NeXT monitor which I have yet to see in these forums.

.


I would like to see a picture of this some day  :)
Title: NEC multisync 1990SX
Post by: rey on April 06, 2017, 06:40:33 am
The  NEC multisync 1990SX does seem to have a thinner black frame than the Dell.

Maybe that's the winner?

Can you post NeXTSTEP running on the  NEC multisync 1990SX?
Title: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
Post by: robertrezek on June 15, 2018, 11:51:16 am
Confirm Nec MultiSync 1980SX works great with NeXTStation Turbo Color with Y-cord, ADB sound box and VGA reduction.

I have no luck with Eizo FlexScan S1921 - no image at all even though it is claimed to be SOG compatible.
Robert