NeXT Computers

NeXT Computer, Inc. => Emulation / Virtualization => Topic started by: zombie on February 10, 2019, 10:50:28 pm

Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 10, 2019, 10:50:28 pm
Hi All:

3 Questions:

(1) How do you do a fresh install?

I have NeXTSTEP 3.3 and OPENSTEP 4.2 original CDs and made ISOs of them. If I recall, there was a way to boot off the CDs so you could do a fresh install on a target SCSI drive. Does anyone remember how to do this?

ANSWERED:

Previous.app System settings should be as follows:


The following link are to an image of both NEXTSTEP 3.3 CD and the needed boot floppy image (thanks to drakar):
https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2

Process:



(2) What is the most complete way to install NeXT/OPENSTEP?

I vaguely remember what you want to do is a clean install of NeXTSTEP 3.3 first. Then from that clean install run an upgrade app for OPENSTEP 4.2 to upgrade over NeXTSTEP 3.3. If I remember this is because some of the 3.3 libraries do not exist on 4.2 and apps that have not been upgraded for 4.2 like Improv and maybe some others, need those 3.3 libraries. Does anyone remember if this is correct?


(3) How do you set up a 4GB partition?

Previous.app seems to come with a bunch of disks images. One is an empty 2GB image. But I don't see an empty 4GB partition. Does anyone know how to make a 4GB partition?


Thanks so much for any help! BTW, using Previous 2.2
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 11, 2019, 02:40:01 am
So I have tried making the ISO 3.3 User cdrom boot drive as a cdrom as either device 0 or 1 on SCSI. It does the very initial commandline installation.

However, after it reboots, the install gets stuck. I've tried many combinations of ejecting the CD, or doing a bsd(1,0,0) to try to boot from the target 2GB partition that i'm installing on. But the install keeps getting hung saying it gave up on mounting /NEXTSTEP_INSTALL or something to that effect.

There has got to be a way to do a fresh install here.  Has anyone done this successfully?

Thanks!
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: mattsoft on February 11, 2019, 04:03:02 am
If you are using a SCSI2SD, download this image:

https://winworldpc.com/download/c3bc687b-1253-3e11-c3a4-c2a90f7054ef

Extract and then:

sudo dd if=NS32_2GB.dd of=/dev/disk# conv=fdatasync

You're all set!
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 11, 2019, 12:24:11 pm
Quote from: "mattsoft"If you are using a SCSI2SD, download this image:

https://winworldpc.com/download/c3bc687b-1253-3e11-c3a4-c2a90f7054ef

Extract and then:

sudo dd if=NS32_2GB.dd of=/dev/disk# conv=fdatasync

You're all set!


Thanks. I have images from this forum that already have 3.3 and 4.2 installed. And they work with previous just fine.  

The problem is I don't trust installations made by others, spyware/virus/etc (I understand that is highly unlikely but I need to trust the provenance of the operating system).

And the other problem is I don't understand how others managed to successful do an install with previous when it keeps hanging for me... perhaps they did the install on actual next hardware, and then imaged the result for use as a previous image?
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: mikeboss on February 11, 2019, 10:39:26 pm
Quote from: "zombie"perhaps they did the install on actual next hardware, and then imaged the result for use as a previous image?


that's exactly how I did it...
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 12, 2019, 02:35:00 pm
Quote from: "mikeboss"
Quote from: "zombie"perhaps they did the install on actual next hardware, and then imaged the result for use as a previous image?


that's exactly how I did it...


Hmm so for some reason, the emulator is not compatible enough to do a fresh install. So strange. I'll take a screen shot to show where it hangs, maybe it will help.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 12, 2019, 06:19:13 pm
So for starters, the emulator will not boot correctly if you set the drives up as follows (this is with boot options set to rom monitor so you can try to kick from your preferred drive):

SCSI Disk 0 as Harddisk - empty2GB.dd
SCSI Disk 1 read-only CD-ROM - NeXTSTEP USER 3.3.iso

When you do a rom monitor command of:


the rom monitor kicks back "no SCSI disk"

So then I tried making it as follows:

SCSI Disk 0 read-only CD-ROM - NeXTSTEP USER 3.3.iso
SCSI Disk 1 as Harddisk - empty2GB.dd

after that, the "bsd" command boots into the install CD and you get the:

Type 1 to use the English language and USA keyboard while installing NEXSTEP...

you hit 1.

And then you get a prompt to:

The startup disk on this computer is:
     SCSI Disk at target 1 (Previous HDD) - 1919 MB

Type 1 to install NEXTSTEP on this disk...


you hit 1.

Then it says:

Ready to install NEXTSTEP

Type 1 to start installing NEXTSTEP...


you hit 1

Then it says:

Preparing disk for NEXTSTEP installation.
This may take a few minutes...



and then shows installation progress like:

Installing /usr/lib/...
===========>............................


That all goes great. That preliminary install suceeds, but then, it asks you to reboot. You type RETURN for it to reboot. It does.

But now it will boot back into the CDROM. If you eject the CDROM and enter the "bsd(1,0,0)" command, it will again fail with the "no SCSI disk" error. So now your only option is to reconfigure the SCSI disk to make the 2GB SCSI0 and the CDROM SCSI1.

When you do this, it seemingly starts to boot correctly.

It gets to the following part:

en:0 address automatically set to 192.0.1.20
lo0: address automatically set to 127.0.0.1
Setting hostname to -AUTOMATIC-


And it hangs there for quite a while. You can hit Ctrl-C and break it out sooner, but if you wait it will say

Configuration server not responding to request for hostname
Do nothing to keep waiting or press 'c' to continue


type c and then it will freeze here:

Reinitializing nmserver's network portion
mount: /dev/sd0a on /NEXTSTEP_INSTALL: Device busy
mount: giving up on:
   /private/vm/swapfile.front
/user/etc/mach_swapon: swapping on /private/vm/swapfile
Cleaning up: /etc/nologin ptys floppy devices editors /tmp /NET
Starting early deamons: Nov 11 12:30:24 localhost syslogd: cannot create /dev/log: Read-only file system
Starting RPC and network services: portmap routed netinfo lookupd


You can then hit Ctrl-C a bunch of times and you'll get a bit farther in the boot, but it will still eventually hang at "Starting standard daemons: update cron"

So for whatever reason it cannot mount the CD Rom install when you swap the drive SCSI0/1 order even though the CDROM is there.

The problem seems to be that for whatever reason, the bsd(1,0,0) command does not work. I think if it did, I would just keep the boot order the same after the initial install and it should finish.

Appreciate any thoughts/insights.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 12, 2019, 07:18:29 pm
By the way, is there a way to upload screen shots when posting on here. Or must we host the screenshots on other websites and link to them?

I think it would be great if we could upload directly to the site so the screen caps/etc. stay permanently here.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: drakar on February 12, 2019, 08:22:09 pm
Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: eagle on February 12, 2019, 09:24:20 pm
Quote from: "drakar"Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.

I always thought that to boot NS/OS on black hardware required an installed disk (either optical or hard drive, or floppy).  My understanding was always that black hardware would not boot directly from CD.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 12, 2019, 09:35:54 pm
Quote from: "eagle"
Quote from: "drakar"Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.

I always thought that to boot NS/OS on black hardware required an installed disk (either optical or hard drive, or floppy).  My understanding was always that black hardware would not boot directly from CD.


I do not think that is correct.

First, it definitely does boot! And even does the first part of the install correctly (see above excerpts).

Also, The cdrom is just another scsi drive.  

I'm not sure there were ever any boot floppies for installation on black hardware. Either magneto, or the external scsi cdrom next sold for a while. Could be wrong, but it definitely can and does boot and have an installer on the cd
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 12, 2019, 09:38:46 pm
Quote from: "drakar"Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.


No I haven't. I didn't even know a blackhardware boot floppy existed! I don't think my original software came with one!? I'll have to look. In the mean time could you provide a link where I might find the floppy image?

Thanks so much, guess I'm wrong about the floppies.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: drakar on February 13, 2019, 01:02:57 am
Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2

The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.

It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 13, 2019, 03:27:08 am
Quote from: "drakar"Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2

The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.

It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.


I do not remember needing this when I had my cube. Mostly because I never owned a floppy for it..l interesting...

Thanks so much for the pointer!
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 14, 2019, 01:29:44 am
Quote from: "drakar"Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2

The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.

It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.


So wait a second, the link goes to an image of NEXTSTEP USER 3.3 CD, not a floppy. I tried setting it to the image used by floppy but i get an error that you can use floppies that are 1.44 or 2.88MB.

Did you mean use the NEXTSTEP USER 3.3 CD.iso and select it as a SCSI disk4 but, instead of labeling that as a CDROM, label it as read only floppy?

If so, what do you have set for your boot order? Mine if I leave the SCSI boot order as first, it fails to boot because then SCSI0 is an empty disk. If I try the bsd(4,0,0) command using the monitor as the boot order, then it fails. :(

I am missing something. :(
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: drakar on February 14, 2019, 01:41:08 am
The download is a 7z archive that contains an iso of the CD plus 7 floppy images.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: andreas_g on February 14, 2019, 06:46:54 pm
As far as i know you can't install without a boot floppy. There are install CD-ROMs and boot floppys for all version of NeXTstep/OPENSTEP from 2.2 onwards. On older versions you had to use BuildDisk.app to clone a running system to a new disk.

I just successfully installed NeXTstep 3.2 using Previous:
SCSI ID 0: target disk (HDD)
SCSI ID 1: boot floppy in floppy drive
SCSI ID 2: install CD-ROM

Boot with command bsd(1,0,0)
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: mikeboss on February 14, 2019, 09:11:01 pm
AFAIR only turbo-systems were able to boot from OPENSTEP CDs.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 15, 2019, 03:03:02 pm
OK so thank you guys.  The floppy does indeed get the install to go further, but I'm still getting errors.

So here is my setup.
FD0 moto_3.3_Boot_Floppy
SD0 2GB_Blank_Image
SD1 NEXTSTEP_3.3_InstallCD

The floppy looks for the CDROM and kicks to it, the CD rom does the initial command line install. You reboot. The floppy starts booting, and then kicks to SD0 where install continues.

Then the GUI INstall NEXTSTEP window pops up listing all the packages. The mouse moves WAYYYY too fast, but whatever. I hit the Install button and after a while I get a

Build FAILED!
Swedish Package failed to install.

Some error like that. What is interesting I did this with my own private image of NeXTSTEP 3.3 from my personal CD, AND, from the 3.3 image I downloaded from link provided in this thread.  Same error.

Any thoughts here?
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 15, 2019, 03:16:55 pm
Quote from: "drakar"Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2

The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.

It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.


So thank you, that was ultimately it.

So following up my own post. It seems you need to DESELECT every single optional install package. Hit INSTALL button, and then the install will finish. Then you can go back after you boot into the system and install all those packages individually (my guess is doing so as root).

I don't remember needing to do any of that back in the day.

So in summary, to get a clean version of NEXTSTEP 3.3 installed, you need to:

Get the motoFloppyBoot floppy, set Previous to use it as a FLOPPY. Set the boot order to boot floppy first. Set your blank 2GB drive to SD0. Set your NeXTSTEP Install CD to SD1.  Kick from the floppy, go through the install.

Then, when you get to the first GUI installer package window, DESELECT every optional package except the base package. Hit the Install button. It will finish the install, reboot.

THEN, when the reboot is complete, enable root account, log in as root, go to the NEXSTEP_3.3 CD in Workspace, look in the NextCD/Packages folder, and install any of the optional packages you want from there.

Thanks everyone for helping out here. Thanks so much drakar!
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 15, 2019, 04:58:22 pm
So I think I spoke to soon.

So now I'm in root and I'm trying to install all the extra packages.  Every time I try to instal DigitalWebster, the entire system freezes up.

Has anyone successfully installed all the packages without the emulator hanging?
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 15, 2019, 05:12:02 pm
Ok so seems the system is "crashy" when I run the NeXT Dimension. So the trick seems to be to the the entire install on a single monochrome setup.

So I think I will do the entire install again from scratch. Nice and clean. And once it's done, I can then mess with the dimension.

Does anyone remember what the trick was to be able to log into the root account without having to set a password up on your 'me' account.

I vaguely remember it was like right clicking or command clicking or something right after the display process initializes after you log out. But I cannot quite seem to catch it.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: Rob Blessin Black Hole on February 15, 2019, 08:05:27 pm
It is easy to set up a password for your me account just double click the calendar / clock icon ,  upper right on dock
this opens the preferences panel , it may open but be hidden behind the file viewer window just move the window with mouse
click the padlock icon ,  
set the me account password.
Now when you logout you will have a login screen.
this lets you login as either me or root
you can simply type root  with no password and you are in as root ,

this makes it so much easier to install packages and everything else vs having to su to root from terminal window.
While in as root , click the calandar icon again scroll right set unix expert preferences now you will see all the hidden files and you may also want to set the root password..... be sure to set the root password before networking to prevent cluster f mayhem....
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 15, 2019, 09:15:38 pm
Quote from: "Rob Blessin Black Hole"It is easy to set up a password for your me account just double click the calendar / clock icon ,  upper right on dock
this opens the preferences panel , it may open but be hidden behind the file viewer window just move the window with mouse
click the padlock icon ,  
set the me account password.
Now when you logout you will have a login screen.
this lets you login as either me or root
you can simply type root  with no password and you are in as root ,

this makes it so much easier to install packages and everything else vs having to su to root from terminal window.
While in as root , click the calandar icon again scroll right set unix expert preferences now you will see all the hidden files and you may also want to set the root password..... be sure to set the root password before networking to prevent cluster f mayhem....


Thanks Rob. But I want to not do that so my installs are "virginal".

And the trick is log out of the me account. Your cursor will 'jump' as the window manager resets, click the mouse button and hold it. If you time it right, it will bring up the login window.

But I plan to back up this virginal clean install for when I might need it. And then yes, once I start using it for myself, I will put in a password for the reasons you give.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: rumbeard on February 16, 2019, 01:06:56 am
Quote from: "eagle"
Quote from: "drakar"Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.

I always thought that to boot NS/OS on black hardware required an installed disk (either optical or hard drive, or floppy).  My understanding was always that black hardware would not boot directly from CD.


Back when I did my only 4.2 install on my cube it had a floppy (this was almost 20 years ago).  It was used to bootstrap the CD.  I believe I dangled an old Sony CDR drive I had in an external Sun case off the SCSI port and used the floppy to kick off the install.  Worked a treat.  One of the easiest installs I've done.

My cube had been in the garbage somewhere so it never had an MO... so was either removed ahead of time or what I don't know.  Luckily I had to give it a minor clean and it had plenty of RAM at the time... Can't remember if I upgraded the RAM First.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 16, 2019, 03:48:27 pm
Ok so I updated my first post providing an answer. I'll continue to update this thread as we get more answers.

Next, a status update and one still minor install problem.

I got a clean install of NEXTSTEP 3.3 User, and then developer. I then successfully did the OPENSTEP 4.2 upgrade of that 3.3 User/Dev install.

However, then when I went to install OPENSTEP 4.2 Developer I got some install errors. First, some of it was due to the order in which you must install the developer packages. So to not get dependancy errors you must install the packages in the following order, I think:

ProfileLibs.pkg
DeveloperTools.pkg
DeveloperLibs.pkg
GNUSource.pkg
DeveloperDoc.pkg

However, I get an error when installing the DeveloperDoc.pkg as follows:

Installing /NextDeveloper/Examples/AppKit/Yap/English.lproj/Document.nib/data.classes ... Not a directory.
**** There were errors while installing DeveloperDoc.pkg.
...errors


It's not the end of the world but I'm not understanding what went wrong for this not to install completely cleanly. Any thoughts?
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: zombie on February 16, 2019, 09:23:46 pm
Ok, one way around this is before you install the DeveloperDoc.pkg is to rename that Document.nib file to something like Document_OLD.nib and then the package will install with no errors.

Now on to install Patch4 User, Dev, and EOF profiles over the system
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: andreas_g on February 17, 2019, 08:03:22 am
I did some tests yesterday and could not reproduce the problems installing while NeXTdimension is running. I'll PM you my e-mail address. Please send me your configurstion file and informations about your host system.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: Rob Blessin Black Hole on February 17, 2019, 09:12:10 am
As root:

DeveloperTools.pkg
DeveloperLibs.pkg
ProfileLibs.pkg
GNUSource.pkg
DeveloperDoc.pkg
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: neozeed on February 24, 2019, 06:45:10 am
something doesn't sound right with all that corruption.

Is the disk slightly over 2GB?

the floppy has the boot program that'll read CD's.  I spent an ungodly amount on a SCSI floppy drive to read it to install 3.3 back when I had hardware and I was pissed, it was only a few KB! ... lol and I could have just dd'd it to the start of a hard disk. sigh.

And yeah you can just DD the CD-ROM to a HD, and boot from that.

I'm pretty sure you can BEN (Booth EtherNet) the boot program as well, although that is a bit involved to setup.

NeXT goes a little crazy when it crosses that 2GB limit.. it'll act okay but slowly destroy itself.
Title: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous
Post by: rumbeard on February 24, 2019, 09:56:17 pm
I can confirm on a brand new clean install with a disk slightly over 2, that the Document.nib is not a directory.  I just deleted it and the install worked a charm.  I basically did a turbo color station as 3.3, then cloned the disk and switched it to a cube with an ND in slot 2.  Upgraded that one to 4.2 straight away.