"Cloning" a NeXTstep system?

Started by Jenne, September 09, 2006, 01:31:27 pm

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helf

*INACTIVE*

nextchef

Just as an update, I was able to get the next to boot without having a hard drive installed internally.  All I had to do was add a 50pin terminator to the end of the cable, so that that end of the SCSI bus was terminated properly.  The drive is now happy in a sun external enclosure, with a nice fan for cooling.

Chef

nextchef

Quote from: "helf"I'll take a pdf :)


I can send it by email, so pm me with the address.

I need to find somewhere to host it online, so it is easier to get.

Chef

idylukewild

nextchef-

Thanks for an excellent write up of how to clone a drive to a larger disk. I see you were able to make the replacement drive the boot drive without going through the "load system software" step I had to resort to. But, like me, I guess you were not able to have more than 2GB useful space from your 4GB drive. Perhaps someone will be able to modify or add to your procedure so that we can have use of 4GB HD space someday.

nextchef

Quote from: "idylukewild"nextchef-

Thanks for an excellent write up of how to clone a drive to a larger disk. I see you were able to make the replacement drive the boot drive without going through the "load system software" step I had to resort to. But, like me, I guess you were not able to have more than 2GB useful space from your 4GB drive. Perhaps someone will be able to modify or add to your procedure so that we can have use of 4GB HD space someday.


I am still working on that, just have not had a lot of time lately to devote to it.  As far as I can tell, the disktab entry *should* work, but I always get errors when disk tries to lay a filesystem down on the second partition.  I have tried changing the starting cylinder info a couple of different ways, with no better success.  I do not fully understand all the details of creating disktab entries yet, so it is a lot of trial and error.  I intend to try to install OS 4.2 on one of them, since it supports 4G partitions, and see if at least that works.

Too many projects (and most of them not fun computer related stuff :( ) and not enough time.

Chef

mgtremaine

Great howto! Thanks for posting it. After Andreas scared me with regards to heat and the PSU I dug out a Quantum 1080S [1.02G 5400rpm] from the junk pile. Following you threads I was able to clone the drive no problems. I'll note that I did not have to mess with the disktab at all when I boot with the new drive as an external drive [in NeXTStep 3.3 p 3] the disk was found automatically and it asked me if I wanted to Initialize it. Answering yes made it create a 1gb partition and mount it all in one shot.  From there is was just a matter of the "disk -b /dev/rsd1a", and the dump restore dance.

[Also Note I played with a 9gb Seagate and it was also automatically found and had a 2gb partition made. THe question becomes and I'll play with it again later, can you just use disk to hit the rsd1b... etc or not?]

-Mike

nextchef

Quote from: "mgtremaine"Great howto! Thanks for posting it. After Andreas scared me with regards to heat and the PSU I dug out a Quantum 1080S [1.02G 5400rpm] from the junk pile. Following you threads I was able to clone the drive no problems. I'll note that I did not have to mess with the disktab at all when I boot with the new drive as an external drive [in NeXTStep 3.3 p 3] the disk was found automatically and it asked me if I wanted to Initialize it. Answering yes made it create a 1gb partition and mount it all in one shot.  From there is was just a matter of the "disk -b /dev/rsd1a", and the dump restore dance.

[Also Note I played with a 9gb Seagate and it was also automatically found and had a 2gb partition made. THe question becomes and I'll play with it again later, can you just use disk to hit the rsd1b... etc or not?]

-Mike


Glad it was of help to you.  As you found out, NS usually has no problems with disks smaller than 2g.  Assuming you have a proper disktab defining multiple 2g partitions, then disk should be able to create multiple partitions.  I say "should", because I was never able to get my 4G seagate drives to work this way, but that is just me.  What I do not know is what disk would do to a drive that it had initialized previously without one, and created the standard 2g partition.  I do not know if the drive would be wiped in the process, or just the other partitions created.

Chef

EDIT:
Sorry if that doesnt make much sense, but it has been a long day, and the brain is not quite working correctly.

mgtremaine

Quote from: "nextchef"Assuming you have a proper disktab defining multiple 2g partitions, then disk should be able to create multiple partitions.  I say "should", because I was never able to get my 4G seagate drives to work this way, but that is just me.  What I do not know is what disk would do to a drive that it had initialized previously without one, and created the standard 2g partition.  I do not know if the drive would be wiped in the process, or just the other partitions created.

Chef

EDIT:
Sorry if that doesnt make much sense, but it has been a long day, and the brain is not quite working correctly.


Makes sense, I think we are wondering about the same thing. I'll have to try it tomorrow. [Happily I have everything setup now so I can run headless and get in via telnet and/or the serial A port. So mucking about with the Unix of things can now been done easily]

Regarding the /etc/disktab mine is basically empty it has an entry for the optical drive and then a note saying that other entries are not need so long as the scsi target has the sense feature. [Or something like that.] Perhaps that really means yeah put any drive in and NS will give up to 1 2gb partition. If you want more you need to work for it    :wink: ...

-Mike

mgtremaine

Well here is the answer  :D ...

I took 9g Seagate  [SEAGATE ST39102LCSUN9.0G] using no disktab I issued this command.

disk -i -p 2000000 /dev/rsd1a

{I'd post the output from this but it is long, if anyone really wants to see it I'll post it.]

What happened was it created a 2gb /dev/rsd1a and then proceeded to create 1.7gb slices until it ran out of room. I was able to mount all of them and verify they worked.

betelgeuse:52# df
Filesystem            kbytes    used   avail capacity  Mounted on
/dev/sd0a            1020237  200597  717616    22%    /
/private/vm/swapfile 1020237  200597  717616    22%    /private/vm/swapfile.front
/dev/sd1a            1980942       9 1782838    00%    /disk1
/dev/sd1b            1694781       9 1525293    00%    /disk2
/dev/sd1c            1694781       9 1525293    00%    /disk3
/dev/sd1d            1694781       9 1525293    00%    /disk4
/dev/sd1e            1694782      10 1525293    00%    /disk5

So at this point I could make sd1a bootable and clone to it and having a nice amount of room. I'm not going to but hey atleast I know that answer to the question now.

Note this is with NeXTSTEP 3.3 p 3 I have no idea if this works with anything else.

-Mike

nextchef

Very interesting that it created 1.7G partitions, and not 2.0G or 1.9G ones for the rest.  Will have to hook up one of the 4G drives and give this a try without the disktab entry.

Thanks for the info.

Chef

mgtremaine

Quote from: "nextchef"Very interesting that it created 1.7G partitions, and not 2.0G or 1.9G ones for the rest.  Will have to hook up one of the 4G drives and give this a try without the disktab entry.

Thanks for the info.

Chef


I think that the disk command has some logic that calculates the total size and forces all secondary partitions to be of equal size.

I tried it again with a 18G [Quantum Atlas III] this time it made 2gb partitions but get this is it did a->h making 8 of them and the first and the last one are not mountable... I'm seeing if this can bee fixed.

/dev/sd1b            1914928       9 1723426    00%    /disk2
/dev/sd1c            1914929       9 1723427    00%    /disk3
/dev/sd1d            1914929       9 1723427    00%    /disk4
/dev/sd1e            1914929       9 1723427    00%    /disk5
/dev/sd1f            1914929       9 1723427    00%    /disk6
/dev/sd1g            1914929       9 1723427    00%    /disk7

-Mike

Added: doing "newfs /dev/rsd1a" remade filesystem on the first partition. And I was able to mount it.

/dev/sd1a            1941228       9 1747096    00%    /disk1

I'm out time for today [my son gets out of school in 30mins] so no more playing around with this today.  :P

Jenne

Hello NeXTchef.

While reading Your great comments on "cloning" You gave me some hints on how to solve my problems I'm actually facing while setting up my harddrives for the cube and the station. Maybe I will clone my system the way You did later on...

One question comes to mind:

You mentioned changing the disk from external eclosure to the inside of the slab - and changing the SCSI ID from "2" to "1" - this is what I'm trying exactly right now while writing these lines, efforts to be posted later.

But You also mentioned the jumper settings of the drive, more exactly the termination thing. My Seagate has those jumpers, in fact one generally "terminating" the chain and several others saying something about "BUS power to drive" and stuff like this. Which settings did You use? Just terminating?

Thank You very much!

J

nextchef

Quote from: "Jenne"Hello NeXTchef.

While reading Your great comments on "cloning" You gave me some hints on how to solve my problems I'm actually facing while setting up my harddrives for the cube and the station. Maybe I will clone my system the way You did later on...

One question comes to mind:

You mentioned changing the disk from external eclosure to the inside of the slab - and changing the SCSI ID from "2" to "1" - this is what I'm trying exactly right now while writing these lines, efforts to be posted later.

But You also mentioned the jumper settings of the drive, more exactly the termination thing. My Seagate has those jumpers, in fact one generally "terminating" the chain and several others saying something about "BUS power to drive" and stuff like this. Which settings did You use? Just terminating?

Thank You very much!

J


In my situation, it was required that the drive be set to provide termination when inside the station.  According to my scribbled notes on the seagate drive spec, It appears I set it on the default setting of "Terminator power from the drive".  The drive is currently not in the slab, as it was easier to do all the switching around with it in an external enclosure, so  I can not visually verify these settings.

Chef


Jenne

As mentioned before "cloning" a complete system is indeed pretty straight forward as long as you don't have to deal with disktab entries - in other words: it is simple as long as someone uses a compatible harddisk with not more than 2 GB capacity.

What I did:

I installed a complete system of NEXTSTEP 3.3 along with the developer packages and the Enterprise Objects Framework (complete with developer packages, too). I've been using the internal harddisk for this step.
After this I connected another compatible harddrive to my cube on the external SCSI BUS, terminated with an active terminator plugged to the enclosure and set to a higher SCSI ID than the internal drive of the cube (the internal was set to ID 1, the external to ID 4). I powered up this enclosure, after this the cube and went on to the root login.
Using DiskBuilder.app I simply installed the complete system (take a look at the options available while maximizing the DiskBuilder.app window!). It took some time but was much faster than installing from CD.
After "cloning" I powered down all parts of the system and reconfigured the external harddisk to SCSI ID 1, terminated with jumpers, obtaining the termination power from the drive (at least some sort of default factory state for most Seagagte harddisks as I found out). Then I plugged the drive to my NeXTstation and fired it up:

everything is working as expected, just the passwords for the "root" and the "me" account have been set back to "empty". No user accounts and their home directories have been cloned so these one have to be set up again.

Pretty good time saving operation to make a complete and bootable backup of a clean and untouched system!

J