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Article today (Apple/iPhone/Verizon) but picture shows NeXT

 
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gctwnl



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:28 am    Post subject: Article today (Apple/iPhone/Verizon) but picture shows NeXT Reply with quote

Have a look at this URL:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-verizon-in-talks-about-two-devices-2009-4

comes with a nice old SJ picture with a NeXT logo in the background. SOmeone goofed (intentionally) with an old SJ picture here.
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kb7sqi



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 488
Location: Winston Salem, NC

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Article today (Apple/iPhone/Verizon) but picture shows N Reply with quote

gctwnl wrote:
Have a look at this URL:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-verizon-in-talks-about-two-devices-2009-4

comes with a nice old SJ picture with a NeXT logo in the background. SOmeone goofed (intentionally) with an old SJ picture here.


Remember Apple may have bought NeXT, but NeXT took over Apple. Wink lol. Take care.
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gctwnl



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Article today (Apple/iPhone/Verizon) but picture shows N Reply with quote

kb7sqi wrote:
gctwnl wrote:
Have a look at this URL:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-verizon-in-talks-about-two-devices-2009-4

comes with a nice old SJ picture with a NeXT logo in the background. SOmeone goofed (intentionally) with an old SJ picture here.


Remember Apple may have bought NeXT, but NeXT took over Apple. Wink lol. Take care.

They did indeed. Interesting avatar Wink
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kb7sqi



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 488
Location: Winston Salem, NC

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Article today (Apple/iPhone/Verizon) but picture shows N Reply with quote

gctwnl wrote:
kb7sqi wrote:
gctwnl wrote:
Have a look at this URL:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-verizon-in-talks-about-two-devices-2009-4

comes with a nice old SJ picture with a NeXT logo in the background. SOmeone goofed (intentionally) with an old SJ picture here.


Remember Apple may have bought NeXT, but NeXT took over Apple. Wink lol. Take care.

They did indeed. Interesting avatar Wink


I know alot of people think it's funny, that I actually would prefer to use a system running NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP over Mac OSX, but I still prefer the "NeXT" interface over the Mac's. I guess that's why I'll always have atleast one system around running OPENSTEP. lol. BTW, my avatar is because besides my love for NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP, I use Solaris/OpenSolaris since I work as a Sun SSE. Smile Take care.
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dai_vernon



Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 44
Location: Newark, DE

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I missed the NeXT boat what with being in grade school when it happened, but I have to say that the way history panned out NeXT probably got dealt the best hand that it could have. It sucks for it to have gone down the tubes as a standalone company, but having been folded into Apple as it was it has been able to reach the influence it deserved to reach. It would have been great to see NeXT itself continue to make new hardware/software into the 21st century (a NeXT laptop would be the best thing ever). Even still, I think that NeXT being absorbed by Apple and being the seed of the modern times is preferable to NeXT kicking off Apple - Apple is one of those iconic companies and brands that I would mourn forever if it ever went away.
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tomaz



Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Sark

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeXTstep user interface was infinitely better than Mac OS X's. It was better designed, more orthogonal, less cluttered, less intrusive (non-user-data elements having largely been an unbtrusive gray) - just clearly thought through to the minutest detail, which Mac OS X clearly is not.

But it goes deeper, it was not just the GUI, the whole system was like that.

Mac OS X may have been adding many new features, but it has not been adding them in a sympathetic way - often they look bolted on, giving a Frankenstein-like appearance. Sometimes less really is more, and more really is bloat. NeXTstep was innovative as much in what it pruned out as in what it introduced as new.

Just some of the things that irk me about Mac OS X:

- it is full of new "features" but I find it is less stable and it seems to crash more often than NS/OS used to - I used to run NextStep 3.0 for 9 months at a time, with Mac OS X this is just not feasible
- HFS+
- resource forks and ._ file semantics (incompatible with normal Unix filesystem semantics)
- Carbon
- Finder - just about everything about it, e.g. its "shortcuts" which are represented by filesystem icons which don't behave like icons belonging to filesystem objects (what was wrong with Workspace Manager and the shelf + the ability to place multiple files on a shelf + all filesystem icons working the same way)
- the bizzare and incompletely defined alias semantics (read: ad hoc hack which doesn't work)

- GUI:

    - GUI look and feel is no longer consistent
    - less consistent command key assignments valid across applications
    - time dependencies in GUI (e.g. quick double-click on a file in Finder means launch, slow double-click means rename - which means there is an upper limit on how quickly you can rename + it is error-prone)
    - GUI seems more intrusive (applications automatically forcing a window other than the active window on top of the active window, and popping up alerts for minor problems - surely this didn't used to be so common in NS/OS?)
    - activating an app also unminimizes a random data window (in some applications - yet not in others)
    - horizontal menu bar (with no detachable menus)
    - no more -NXHost
    - minimize and close buttons next to each other (they used to be on opposite sides of the window, for good reason - so you could not accidentally hit one instead of the other). I believe maximize button is superfluous bloat and does not provide any natural function - it's there only to imitate Windows.
    - Aqua, brushed-metal, traffic light buttons etc. etc. - no match for Ohlfs'-designed NeXT look and feel


- bubble help (which sometimes obstructs underlying user interface elements)
- Installer can no longer uninstall/compress .pkg's (not to mention .pkg is no longer the standard way to install and there is no standard way to install/uninstall or manage installed components)
- a lot of new defaults (and new such defaults in every version) where Mac OS X is automatically doing some things I did not ask for - such as Safari automatically opening certain downloaded files
- Mail is just a mess:

    - try editing a reply-quoted HTML message. You get strange big "X" markers to let you delete a whole paragraph, deleting text sometimes magically changes the formatting of some other text altogether, some blank lines cannot be deleted at all ... why does it have to behave like some Microsoft program, not like a normal WYSIWYG rich text editor? What was wrong with NextMail and RTFD mail messages?
    - spam filtering, ToDos, post-it notes, stationery, data detectors. What's next - built-in psychoanalysis? Yet at the same, Mail is less stable and keeps losing data for me (which it never used to on NeXT).


I could go on and on. In terms of design quality there is just no comparison.
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armus2112



Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really feel NextStep 3.3 user interface is infinitely better than today's Mac OS X Leopard ?!
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dai_vernon



Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 44
Location: Newark, DE

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want this to turn into a flame war, but I think that the NS 3.3 user interface was much classier than the current OS X interface. It was much more focused on function rather than form - the dock was much nicer behaved, the floating menus are nice, etc. However, that isn't to say that I don't think that the OS X user interface have several legs up on the NS interface. I find the OS X dock perfectly fine, I find the Finder perfectly fine, what shortcomings the Finder has can be pretty easily overcome with third party stuff, etc. Not to mention that there are a couple of things about the NS interface that are absolutely infuriating - worst radio buttons ever, for example. The only thing I really miss are the menus.

All in all, I don't think that you could really definitively say which is a "better" environment. People have preferences and one may be more suited to them than another, but I think it's way too complex to point to one and say "better".
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tomaz



Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Sark

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I do, very much so.

Leopard has new features including some which in NeXT days one could not contemplate (e.g. not enough RAM/disk space/CPU power), new software, but the design and overall integration are in my view less orthogonal, less well thought out, less usable and less attractive.

Take a specific example: why is there such a proliferation of different widgets which don't look like they fit together at all (compare the "close" (X) button on a normal window, on a quick look window, on a dashboard window, or the "X in a Mail.app HTML editing window - they're all completely different sizes, styles). It just looks like whenever someone at Apple writes a new app, he creates a new style, inconsistent with the rest, and it all gets put together in one big jumble.

On a number of objective measures, Mac OS X is worse than NextStep. It takes up considerably more (several orders of magnitude more) disk space than NextStep ever did per function provided - and that's got to tell us something. Smaller is always more reliable, and indicative of better design. Why does a running instance of a web browser seem to take up 1.5GB of virtual memory with almost no windows open (almost the maximum amount of disk space NextStep could ever have)?

Nevertheless, this is just style. Of more concern is usability, and I find this to be worse on Mac OS X than NS/OS (mostly for reasons already described).

Having said that, I appreciate your preferences may be different - I don't dispute your right to prefer something other than what I prefer!
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kb7sqi



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 488
Location: Winston Salem, NC

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree w/ Tomaz. Cool As much as I do like/love Mac OSX, I still put it third on my list of favorite operating systems. If I can do something on NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP, then I'll do it there first before logging into one of my OSX systems. My "NeXT" systems just work. I can leave them going for months on end. How many times do have an app crash in NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP? Besides the 3.x version of OmniWeb, which you really shouldn't consider a modern browser these days. If I could get OPENSTEP to support the newer hardware on my netbook, I'd run OPENSTEP on one in a heartbeat! You can fit a lot of stuff on a 8 gig flash disk under NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP! Smile As hardware gets faster, software gets more bloated, the code is sloppier it seams, etc. I find it interesting that today we need 2.0 ghz + & gigs of ram to do the same things we did in the 90's w/ slower hardware/less ram & disk space. lol. Take care.
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Thrax



Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was meant to put a smile on the forum members here. Seems to have worked Very Happy
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kb7sqi



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 488
Location: Winston Salem, NC

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thrax wrote:
It was meant to put a smile on the forum members here. Seems to have worked Very Happy


I'd agree. Laughing I do think it's interesting to hear why other people choose to use "other" operating systems. Most people who know me, know I "loathe" Microsoft. Wink It has it's place, but just not in my house. LOL. Now in saying that, I'll give Microsoft some credit by saying that XP is pretty stable & Windows 7 Beta is a whole lot better that Vista. If I have to need to run something under Windows, I normally do it under VirtualBox. When you walk into my "Office," you get the impression right away, I prefer "Sun/NeXT" boxes. When my two boys go to school, they have no problem telling people that "Dad" don't do Windows. We run Mac's at home. Wink I think it's pretty funny. Razz
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