NeXT Computers Forum Index NeXT Computers
www.NeXTComputers.org
 
Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages

Log inLog in  RegisterRegister


Profile  Search  Memberlist  FAQ  Usergroups
Your multi-monitor experience (update 6/16/10)

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    NeXT Computers Forum Index -> NeXTdimension Board
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NeXTsociety



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Grass Valley, CA.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Your multi-monitor experience (update 6/16/10) Reply with quote

Curious for those with 2 or even 3 displays connected to a NeXTcube. How is the speed of moving windows between screens? I have 2 NeXTdimesion boards driving 2 large displays and also the stock port driving the mono display. It is very chunky moving windows between screens. The whole window disappears and many seconds later it kind of shows up in the other window or 1/2 way through and eventually gets there.

So, rather slow.

Is this common experience for you all?

tj


Last edited by NeXTsociety on Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nitro
Site Admin


Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 420
Location: Littleton, Colorado USA

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NeXTdimension FAQ has a good explanation of what you are probably experiencing.

Quote:
6.3 NeXTanswers #1052

The Key to NeXTdimension Configurations
The key to NeXTdimension configurations is simple - don't set
the monochrome MegaPixel Display as the default screen if
you configure the NeXTdimension system with both monochrome
and color displays. This configuration causes the
NeXTdimension to run very slowly.

The NeXTdimension can be run either with just a color
display, or with both monochrome and color displays
simultaneously. For best performance when running with both
displays, the color display should be set as the default
screen. Make sure that your customers don't configure their
systems to default to the monochrome display. This
configuration works, but works very slowly.

For example, zooming to 200 percent in Scene while looking
at a large TIFF file takes 130 seconds with the slow
configuration. With any other NeXTdimension configuration,
it takes only about 20 seconds.

How does this happen? With a new NeXTdimension system or
upgrade to an existing NeXTcube, the system will power up
and, by default, use only the color display. To configure a
system with multiple displays, the user must run the
Preferences application and use the multiple screens
preference item to enable the monochrome screen.

The only way to get into the slow configuration is to drag
the loginwindow icon over the monochrome screen to set it
as the zero screen. Make sure NeXTdimension customers don't
do this.

Returning a Slow Configuration to Normal
Existing customers who may have already set this
configuration can set the zero screen back to the color
screen by dragging the loginwindow icon over to the color
screen.

Until we can revise the user documentation to warn
NeXTdimension customers about this problem, please
communicate this tip to your customers.


Hope that helps to get your system running faster.
_________________
Nitro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeXTsociety



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Grass Valley, CA.

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had saw that also but not my issue. At first, I did have the mono as the main display but since then, the mono is off turned off in the dual monitor preferences and I only have two 21" NeXT displays physically connected.

It is the same choppiness moving windows from monitor to monitor. The smaller the window, the better it works. If I have a large window, and drag it across from displays, it takes like a second or two to start flowing across the screens. During that flowing time it is missing parts of the window to finally show up in full once I stop moving the cursor.

It is just not fluent like a newer system. My bet, it is the speed of the system and what others are having happen to them. Maybe I am not explaining it right. I guess the best I can say is window drag from monitor to other monitor is choppy and not fluent.

tj

Nitro wrote:
The NeXTdimension FAQ has a good explanation of what you are probably experiencing.

Quote:
6.3 NeXTanswers #1052

The Key to NeXTdimension Configurations
The key to NeXTdimension configurations is simple - don't set
the monochrome MegaPixel Display as the default screen if
you configure the NeXTdimension system with both monochrome
and color displays. This configuration causes the
NeXTdimension to run very slowly.

The NeXTdimension can be run either with just a color
display, or with both monochrome and color displays
simultaneously. For best performance when running with both
displays, the color display should be set as the default
screen. Make sure that your customers don't configure their
systems to default to the monochrome display. This
configuration works, but works very slowly.

For example, zooming to 200 percent in Scene while looking
at a large TIFF file takes 130 seconds with the slow
configuration. With any other NeXTdimension configuration,
it takes only about 20 seconds.

How does this happen? With a new NeXTdimension system or
upgrade to an existing NeXTcube, the system will power up
and, by default, use only the color display. To configure a
system with multiple displays, the user must run the
Preferences application and use the multiple screens
preference item to enable the monochrome screen.

The only way to get into the slow configuration is to drag
the loginwindow icon over the monochrome screen to set it
as the zero screen. Make sure NeXTdimension customers don't
do this.

Returning a Slow Configuration to Normal
Existing customers who may have already set this
configuration can set the zero screen back to the color
screen by dragging the loginwindow icon over to the color
screen.

Until we can revise the user documentation to warn
NeXTdimension customers about this problem, please
communicate this tip to your customers.


Hope that helps to get your system running faster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cubist



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeXTsociety wrote:

It is just not fluent like a newer system. My bet, it is the speed of the system and what others are having happen to them. Maybe I am not explaining it right. I guess the best I can say is window drag from monitor to other monitor is choppy and not fluent.


These are 20-year-old designs. For the most part, you need to adjust your expectations. Splitting a window across screens means that drawing is being replicated to the two cards. How complicated that gets in a window server/dps/ND chain, I don't know but having implemented it elsewhere, I have a good guess. And how well it performs should change across applications. Blow up a terminal window or the file browser and drag them around. How well do they perform in comparison?

A shot in the dark: systems with a bias for 'nice' over 'fast' often have various synchronization steps to keep everything locked together. I don't know if NS ever had any such controls but dropping any synchronization will give better draw rates at the expense of visual niceties like blit tears and one screen ahead of the other. Or you could play with an I/O benchmarker while mucking with the windows to see what they're doing to the system.

My real advice: if it hurts when you do that, then don't do that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeXTsociety



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Grass Valley, CA.

PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I don't mind the issue really. Just curious if my situation is universal and that all folks have the same issue. Just want to make sure it was not only I having this.

NeXTs are old but I am happy with the experience either way.

tj

cubist wrote:
NeXTsociety wrote:

It is just not fluent like a newer system. My bet, it is the speed of the system and what others are having happen to them. Maybe I am not explaining it right. I guess the best I can say is window drag from monitor to other monitor is choppy and not fluent.


These are 20-year-old designs. For the most part, you need to adjust your expectations. Splitting a window across screens means that drawing is being replicated to the two cards. How complicated that gets in a window server/dps/ND chain, I don't know but having implemented it elsewhere, I have a good guess. And how well it performs should change across applications. Blow up a terminal window or the file browser and drag them around. How well do they perform in comparison?

A shot in the dark: systems with a bias for 'nice' over 'fast' often have various synchronization steps to keep everything locked together. I don't know if NS ever had any such controls but dropping any synchronization will give better draw rates at the expense of visual niceties like blit tears and one screen ahead of the other. Or you could play with an I/O benchmarker while mucking with the windows to see what they're doing to the system.

My real advice: if it hurts when you do that, then don't do that.
Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cubist



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeXTsociety wrote:
Just curious if my situation is universal and that all folks have the same issue. Just want to make sure it was not only I having this.


Fair enough. As always, check log files for interesting events...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeXTsociety



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Grass Valley, CA.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Video is worth 1000 words. But I will do the words also. Cool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRRg1TgO9NI

So, I finally got around to installing Fiend and Background and have a cool desktop background and screensaver on my dualie dimension driving 21" NeXT monitors. So, I have this cool bouncing ball on my screen and what I find odd is on my main screen, the 21" connected to the dimension nearest the power supply, the bouncing ball cruises pretty speedy. But..... when the ball passes to the right past my dock that is on the right of the screen and moves over into the 2nd 21" display that is driven off the 2nd dimension board, it goes about 1/3 as fast or maybe 1/2 the speed. Once the ball crosses back over, it cruises again.

So, anyone driving 2 dimensions, could you run background and have the bouncing ball desktop and tell me if the ball goes much slower when it crosses to the other side (LUKE, I am your Fatha! heheeh)

This could help me with my whole dragging a window from window to window issue. I just want to figure out if this is the slower old tech and is the way it is OR, do I have some issue that is different from others. It is a VERY noticeble speed difference when it crosses over. Just wonder if you dualie dimension owners have the same experience.

Thanks

tj

** Note, 1 of my NeXTdimension Board is 32MB RAM and the other is only 16MB RAM. Could that be my issue? Not sure how the NeXT #s the slots but at boot, it says slot #2 is 32MB and slot #4 is 16MB. So, is #2 the main board closest to the Power Supply and #4 is the 16MB board? My 2nd dimension board is next to the Main Logig Board so not sure if #1 is Logic Board, #2 board nearest the Power Supply, #3 would be the open slot next to my #2 slot and #4 is next to the Main Board as it is now. How are the ports numbered <grin>

***EDIT *** So, while I wait for those of you running dual dimensions to (pretty please) test yours running backspace with the bouncing ball to see if speed from monitor to monitor changes, I just did this test. I changed the display that has the dock now to my right monitor via the dual monitor preference and guess what, the slowness is now on my middle monitor that it was fast on before. So, to me, the issue is not 16MB RAM versus 32MB Ram from board to board and maybe something else. It seems whatever monitor I select as the dock display becomes fast and the other becomes slow. I still will get more memory for dimension #2 but curious if anyone else has this same issue and is just the way it is for this old system. Or, is it just mine. grin.

**** 2nd Edit ***** Tried something else. Turned off one of the dimensions in the monitor preference and connected a NeXT mono so I was driving a mono and color. Same slow experience with this also so it appears any screen that is not my dock screen goes slower for graphics. Maybe this is common issue?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeXTsociety



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Grass Valley, CA.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone ?? Laughing Laughing

tj
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
itomato



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 296
Location: San Francisco, CA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-seat the memory on the second board, and bring it up to 32M?

Perhaps try another slot?
_________________
-itomato
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    NeXT Computers Forum Index -> NeXTdimension Board All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2017 phpBB Group