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RacerX
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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 Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Did NeXT send out updates on burned cd-r's??? |
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| nextchef wrote: | | If that is the case, then why does Rob over at blackhole charge $200 for something that apple would give you for free. I can understand cost for the cd's and shipping, but not $200 for a couple of burned cd-r's. You have to wonder how many of those original cd's are still around, sitting in a warehouse at apple, or in some ex-NeXT/Apple employees garage. |
Actually, Apple ran out of them... that is why Rob made an agreement with Apple for making copies to continue selling them.
As has been pointed out, there are different prices for NeXT hardware replacement media and media for other platforms. Most of the money that is charged for NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP actually does go back to Apple. It covers Apple's license agreements with the owner of technology within NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP that Apple doesn't own.
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nextchef
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 955
Location: Missouri, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Did NeXT send out updates on burned cd-r's??? |
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| RacerX wrote: | | nextchef wrote: | | If that is the case, then why does Rob over at blackhole charge $200 for something that apple would give you for free. I can understand cost for the cd's and shipping, but not $200 for a couple of burned cd-r's. You have to wonder how many of those original cd's are still around, sitting in a warehouse at apple, or in some ex-NeXT/Apple employees garage. |
Actually, Apple ran out of them... that is why Rob made an agreement with Apple for making copies to continue selling them.
As has been pointed out, there are different prices for NeXT hardware replacement media and media for other platforms. Most of the money that is charged for NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP actually does go back to Apple. It covers Apple's license agreements with the owner of technology within NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP that Apple doesn't own. |
So Rob has to pay a "royalty" fee back to apple for each cd that he sells? Well that explains it, and then $50 is not that much.
All is right with the world again ....
Chef
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Chef
NeXTCube, NeXTStation mono, Color, & TurboColor. SGI O2-1600SW, Indigo2, VW320/540, Sparc 5-10-20, HP-712/80 |
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Jenne
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just to get it right and maybe understand a bit of what You all is writing:
as an owner of original NeXT hardware I'm somewhat endorsed with Apple as long as the as the license agreements (?¿?) do entitle me as a person who as long as I'm in posession of original NeXT hardware has the right to claim for original installation media?
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Andreas
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 314
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Jenne wrote: | Just to get it right and maybe understand a bit of what You all is writing:
as an owner of original NeXT hardware I'm somewhat endorsed with Apple as long as the as the license agreements (?¿?) do entitle me as a person who as long as I'm in posession of original NeXT hardware has the right to claim for original installation media?
J |
The claim has a time-out sometimes in year 2000. For supporting the Year 2000 compatibility and while all Black NeXt was shipped with an OS Apple have sended to everyone, who have wanted Y2k kompat. new media for the whole 3.3 or 4.2 set.
Since a few supplier for OS-code have still rights on the OS like the Postscript Display Code Apple can't give the OS for free. |
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mevdev
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: contacted apple and nothing |
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I contacted Apple on 3 separate occasions since 2004 to try and get the nexstep cds for my nextstation. I think they stopped giving out the cds in 2003 or something like that.
Apple was no help to me and so I'm running 3.1 without the dev tools.
weak.
I'll get the dev tools soon hopefully. ;( |
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Andreas
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 314
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: Re: contacted apple and nothing |
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| mevdev wrote: |
I'll get the dev tools soon hopefully. ;( |
BTW, if you can get a much cheaper V3.2 Box, the dev-tools CD is the same than in 3.3 (or at least after patching). So you can mix an Installation with 3.3 user and 3.2 dev, after patching you have the same result as with the 3.3 dev CD. |
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RacerX
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: Re: contacted apple and nothing |
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| mevdev wrote: | | I contacted Apple on 3 separate occasions since 2004 to try and get the nexstep cds for my nextstation. I think they stopped giving out the cds in 2003 or something like that... |
Since Apple Enterprise (the division of Apple that handled NeXT products) shut down your not going to find too many people at Apple that know much about NeXT products... at all. And that was back in 2001.
Plus, I believe the BlackHole/Apple agreement predates 2004.
As I recall Rob started using CDR media for NeXT hardware fulfillment policy pretty early on and made an agreement with Apple to sell NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP as CDRs when original printed media started running short.
Basically, other than old/used media, Rob is the only authorized person to sell NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. And (as we pretty much all know) support of these products is now a community affair.
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mgtremaine
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 105
Location: San Diego, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Not to beat a dead horse [but hey I just got here]. I read the agreement "letter" at Rob's site and also the recent post by Kenjay and it really seems to me that at this point Apple could care less about NextStep on Black Hardware. Much in the same way they do not care that A/UX has been posted on FTP sites for years and years now.
I do not get the impression that any money goes from Rob back to apple for the sale of NeXTStep CDs [and I sort of doubt that he sends them money for Openstep either but I could be wrong. The problem with reading anything at Blackhole is that it feels like someone slipped some Acid into my Coffee  perhaps it is just me.] I base this off the tongue and cheek wording of the Ebay auction about the funds for Steve Jobs.
Not that I'm suggestions anyone post the 3.3 disk images, I'm just saying I think Apple is over caring about it.
-MIke
Last edited by mgtremaine on Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RacerX
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| mgtremaine wrote: | | I do not get the impression that any money goes from Rob back to apple for the sale of NeXTStep CDs [and I sort of doubt that he sends them money for Openstep either but I could be wrong. The problem with reading anything at Blackhole is that it feels like someone slipped some Acid into my Coffee perhaps it is just me.] I base this off the tongue and cheek wording of the Ebay auction about the funds for Steve Jobs. |
So you are (without evidence) pushing that Rob doesn't have an agreement with Apple?
Part of the reason Apple doesn't put too much into enforcing A/UX is that (1) it is quite limited in what it can do these days and (2) only runs on hardware that Apple stopped making back in 1995. There are very few 68030 and 68040 systems and those systems don't pose any competition to any of Apple's current offerings.
NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP media for NeXT hardware also includes the installation for Intel hardware. And the systems that OPENSTEP can still be run on today are pretty advanced, which keeps them as good alternatives for Apple's hardware/software offerings.
The difference between A/UX and NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/Enterprise Objects/WebObjects is that A/UX never had the features and doesn't still have a viable platform, where as the NeXT products never lost their features and still have a very viable hardware platform.
| Quote: | Not that I'm suggestions anyone post the 3.3 disk images, I'm just saying I think Apple is over caring about it.
[Since I just got a NeXTStation Color Turbo I am very interested in getting 3.3, if anyone has any suggestions feel free to PM me.] |
It sure sounds like this post was designed to convince us that we shouldn't feel guilty about giving away copies of Apple software... to you.
Frankly, attacking Rob's credibility and comparing NS/OS to A/UX wouldn't have been high on my list of recommendations for accomplishing your goals here.
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mgtremaine
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 105
Location: San Diego, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| RacerX wrote: |
It sure sounds like this post was designed to convince us that we shouldn't feel guilty about giving away copies of Apple software... to you.
Frankly, attacking Rob's credibility and comparing NS/OS to A/UX wouldn't have been high on my list of recommendations for accomplishing your goals here. |
My appoligies if that is how it came out I honestly was just try to read all the details I could and then made my comments. It is very confusing when I read the posts regarding Apple's response to KenJay and the various sections from Rob's site/ebay posting. I'm sure Rob is nice fun lovely guy, and I do fully beleive that he has some "official" agreement with Apple, I just said I doubt money changes hands, why would Apple bother? [The accountanting paper work alone for the money each year would not be worth it.]
Rather then trying to convince anyone to give me anything I think what I'm really after is a way for ANYONE with Black Hardware to get NeXTStep 3.3 for free but with Apple's approval. [Downloaded ISO with registration and serial numbers or something like that.] I like to think I'm more altruistic then self-serving but in the end who knows.
I'll stop speculating since that seems to be the wisest move.
-Mike |
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