NeXT Computers Forum Index NeXT Computers
www.NeXTComputers.org
 
Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages

Log inLog in  RegisterRegister


Profile  Search  Memberlist  FAQ  Usergroups
Why can't you download NextStep or OpenStep for free?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    NeXT Computers Forum Index -> The Lounge
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
patrick_symes



Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Sioux Falls, SD, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Why can't you download NextStep or OpenStep for free? Reply with quote

I want to know why a person can't download NextStep or OpenStep for free?
It's hard to find the CD's and if you buy them from Black Hole, Inc it's like $200.
Why is that? Does Apple want us to move on and use Mac OS 10?
I don't want to start a war, but does anyone know why?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nextchef



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a tough question, and others here are better at explaining it, so I am sure they will jump in.

Here is the way I see it. NS/OS contains too much third party licensed technology, and it would be very difficult to get everyone else to agree to release it free, even if apple wanted to. If NS/OS only ran on "black" hardware, then I do not think it would be as much of an issue. But the fact that it can run on x86 hardware means it can be used much more easily. A similar thing is happening now with OSX. As long as it only ran on Apple hardware, they did not worry too much about OS protection like microsoft has. Your only choice was to run it on Apple hardware, and they were more worried about keeping you from switching than worrying about a few extra copies installed on old hardware. If they kept you "in the family" you might decide your old machine is too slow and buy a shiny new mac. Now that they are running on vanilla x86 hardware, they have to worry about piracy, and put mechanisms in to combat it.

This is why projects such as OpenStep were formed, and they are the ones that should be supported in their efforts to come up with a viable alternative.

Chef
_________________
Chef
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nextchef



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link from David Shaw's site about this issue. He makes some good points, and it is a good read.

http://www.rhapsodyos.org/misc/dont_ask/piracy.html

Chef
_________________
Chef
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brams



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 511
Location: Blackburn, England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Why can't you download NextStep or OpenStep for free? Reply with quote

patrick_symes wrote:
It's hard to find the CD's and if you buy them from Black Hole, Inc it's like $200.


Which is way cheaper than when it was new BTW, I know the dev package was about 5 grand US when black hardware was being sold.

iirc I paid 350 pounds about 7 years ago for OS 4.2 (tri fat) usr/dev and NS 3.3 (quad fat) usr/dev which I thought was a bargin, but they are original NeXT CD's.

Quote:
Why is that? Does Apple want us to move on and use Mac OS 10?


I think you've answered your own question. But yes of course they do, in fact I think they'd prefer it if we all skipped buying OS X altogether and just went for a nice top of the line Mac Pro's with loads of ram, a top of the line Quadro FX, a couple of big LCD's, Soundsticks. Oh and of course an iPod (80gb of course), and maybe a 17" MacBook Pro for when we went on the road.

Fact is, Apple have zero interest in a platform that essentially died close to a decade ago. I can completely understand why as well, there are just more profitable things to do these days, like selling iPods, Movies and .mp3's. Fact is Apple just don't care and are absolutely not interested in NeXT anymore. They fulfill their legal obligations and that's it, just like all big corporations do.
_________________
NeXTcube Turbo Dimension, NeXTstation Turbo Color, MP2100, Q840av, Q650, WS G4 500, Pismo G4 550, SGI Octane R12K MXE, BeBox 133.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
weps



Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 49
Location: east coast - usa

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: Why can't you download NextStep or OpenStep for free? Reply with quote

brams wrote:
Fact is, Apple have zero interest in a platform that essentially died close to a decade ago. I can completely understand why as well, there are just more profitable things to do these days, like selling iPods, Movies and .mp3's. Fact is Apple just don't care and are absolutely not interested in NeXT anymore. They fulfill their legal obligations and that's it, just like all big corporations do.


unless someone with direct access is willing to speak for steve jobs on this, i'm not convinced. ns/os may not be relevant to apple's bottom line right now, but i'd be very surprised if no one there cared about it any longer.

with what you know about openstep, how much of that technology do you think could make an appearance as part of os 11...or whatever they plan to call it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brams



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 511
Location: Blackburn, England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Why can't you download NextStep or OpenStep for free? Reply with quote

weps wrote:
unless someone with direct access is willing to speak for steve jobs on this, i'm not convinced. ns/os may not be relevant to apple's bottom line right now, but i'd be very surprised if no one there cared about it any longer.


Yes people left at Apple who worked at NeXT and invested blood & sweat "care" at a personal level, anybody who is passionate about their work would be. Other than, I'd say the Apple legal care in so far as they don't want a law suit for this or that by giving away 3rd party intellectual property of Adobe and a host of other individuals and companies, by letting us download OS and NS for free, but that's it as far as I'm concerned.

Steve on the other hand, I'm quite sure does not give a damn. Not that he's told me of course as I don't know him, but it's unlikey given his mindset that he thinks much about the "good old days" at NeXT, with a mercenary attitude like he has, he looks forwards not back. What possible commercial good could it/would it do Apple Computer by giving away a close to 10 year old operating system that runs on obsolete hardware. Sure it would be a cool goodwill thing to the likes of people like us, but it's not really of any commerical advantage for Apple do to it, so why bother with the legal hassle & risk.

You could argue that you can download system 7.5.5, but AFAIK you can't download 7.6 or 8.1 or 8.5 for similar reasons that there are 3rd party components to those operating systems which are not licensed to be given away. If Apple stopped giving away 7.5 tommorow it would not surprise me. Which customers of any real commercial value to Apple are still using 7.5 or 7.6 for that matter?

Quote:
with what you know about openstep, how much of that technology do you think could make an appearance as part of os 11...or whatever they plan to call it.


I have no idea to be honest, I have no idea how much NeXT technology is in Tiger, I'm told the X Code tools are still based upon the NeXT tools. I know Cheetha, Puma & Jaguar contained more that it does now, but the reason why Rhapsody (and that was a lot closer to OPENSTEP than OS X is) got the bullet is because they wanted to get rid of other peoples technology and keep costs down. So we got Darwin, Quartz etc etc instead.

I'd hazard a complete guess that, apart from certain conceptual things, that there is little NeXT/OPENSTEP technology left.

How much of NT 3.5 do you think is left in Vista?
_________________
NeXTcube Turbo Dimension, NeXTstation Turbo Color, MP2100, Q840av, Q650, WS G4 500, Pismo G4 550, SGI Octane R12K MXE, BeBox 133.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
PowerPC



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Why can't you download NextStep or OpenStep for free? Reply with quote

brams wrote:
How much of NT 3.5 do you think is left in Vista?


Since Microsoft canceled almost all projects related to actual improvements in Vista i'd say a lot. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    NeXT Computers Forum Index -> The Lounge All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2017 phpBB Group