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Any NeXT drivers writers out there?
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Rob Blessin Black Hole
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 547
Location: Ft. Collins, Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morgon wrote:
Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:
The archives has an excellent description 312 pages of what it takes to write NeXT drivers! http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Docs/Developer/DriverKit/ , he he he it looks like we can probably run amuck modifying existing drivers or writing new drivers to support much newer hardware on Intel and potentially create paths to upgrading support for legacy NeXT hardware!


This documents are not as comprehensive as they look on the first view. While they describe the basic driver model and classes NS/OS use, they are lacking of documentation for many kernel classes you need to interface with e.g. event interface for keyboard and mouse drivers.

I had been fortunate enough to grab several parts of the Darwin sources when Apple made them public, including the sources of the kernel and DriverKit library. Without these files and a lot of reverse engineering of the existing drivers (esp. PS2Keyboard and PS2Mouse) and the kernel I could never have written my drivers.


Hello Morgan: Is the Darwin source still available or was it a limited release? Out of curiousity what drivers have you written for NeXTSTEP / Openstep ? Best Regards Rob Blessin
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Morgon



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:

Hello Morgan: Is the Darwin source still available or was it a limited release? Out of curiousity what drivers have you written for NeXTSTEP / Openstep ? Best Regards Rob Blessin


Hello Rob,

unfortunately the interesting parts of the sources (especially driverKit) were only contained in the first releases (0.1 and 0.2) which is no longer public available (at least I could not find them on any ftp archive for many years).

Drivers I have written over the years are: SoundBlaster16PCI, VMXnet, VMMouse, VMTools (for time synchronization between host and guest) and a xfree86 based display driver (internal use only). Except the SoundBlaster, which is no longer working with the newer VMware versions, all drivers are still in productive use in our office.

Best regards
Morgon
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Nitro
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Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 421
Location: Littleton, Colorado USA

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I think there's a DriverKit for OS4.2 in the archives that was released by Apple. I haven't used it but have a look and see if it's what you need.

http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/OPENSTEP/Developer/DriverKit/

Thanks,
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Morgon



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nitro wrote:
Hello,

I think there's a DriverKit for OS4.2 in the archives that was released by Apple. I haven't used it but have a look and see if it's what you need.

http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/OPENSTEP/Developer/DriverKit/

Thanks,


Hello Nitro,

in fact the DriverKit distributed with OS4.2 Developer is nearly the same as the NS3.3 DriverKit (libDriver is only half the size, no idea why). Both are providing the basic stuff for writing driver but as I wrote above the Documentation and Header lack of several internal classes of the kernel I needed to access sometimes for my drivers (e.g. kernel side of the audio and mouse interface).

Morgon
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dgb75



Joined: 23 Jan 2014
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Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the source to your VMWare and Soundblaster drivers available? I'd like to take a stab at making them work with VirtualBox (no promises).
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Rudolf
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello dgb75,

I think you will find the drivers with source code here:
http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/Virtualization/VMWare/
http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/NEXTSTEP/Drivers/nextstep_3.3/3rd_party/

I also had the idea to do something about the driver situation for VirtualBox. To start with I made a display driver, so that I can use NS3.3 User with NS3.3 Developer in a reasonable resolution instead of NS3.3 Developer on top of OS4.2 User. The next thing would have been a keyboard driver but as Morgon already wrote, there's no documentation and I also didn't find the Darwin sources to take a look at the original files. They were on offer from Apple:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990508083200/http://www.publicsource.apple.com/projects/darwin/projects.html
and most of the files are in the usual
next.68k.org/otto/html/pub/Darwin/PublicSource/Darwin/
mirrors but not the one with the kernel: kernel-1.tar.gz
So I guess for the time being, I am washed up.
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barcher174



Joined: 07 Dec 2012
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This does not help?

https://opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-100.html

https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-123.5/
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Morgon



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

some parts of the kernel are still available as source code, but some essential parts are missing nowadays (e.g. libDriver I think). I was lucky to grab some of them when Apple published the sources initially but I think I'm missing some as well.

Since this version had been removed from all archive sites I don't dare to publish them myself.

Morgon
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Rudolf
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, thanks for the help,

barcher174, the earliest XNU source I found was 68.4-1.1
https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26243
I think that Apple rewrote the complete driver system in C++ and called it IOKit in XNU. The underlying system might be the same, but the header files for the keyboard and mouse input and the interface to the window sytem are not in NS3.3 or OS4.2. Take a look at Morgon's mouse driver for VMWare, you will see what I mean.
On next.68k.org there was also a file FileContents you will find here:
http://nextftp.onionmixer.net/next.68k.org/otto/html/pub/Darwin/PublicSource/Darwin/index.html
and in there the files that should be in kernel-1.tar.gz are mentioned, like these:
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/EventSrcPCKeyboard.h
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/EventSrcPCKeyboard.m
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/EventSrcPCPointer.h
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/EventSrcPCPointer.m
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/PCPointer.h
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/PCPointer.m
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/PS2Keyboard.h
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/PS2Keyboard.m
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/PS2Mouse.h
kernel/bsd/dev/i386/PS2Mouse.m
which I think would be possible to use.

Morgon, the files were released by Apple under their Apple Public Source License which is also in the mirror. If somebody knows, if it's alright to put them on nextcomputers.org into the file archive, it should be Rob Blessin.

Rudolf
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Rob Blessin Black Hole
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 547
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello NeXT community : I'll be happy to upload any public domain software to the site. I don't believe there is anything legally wrong with it and if any issues were to develop I'll just delete any files in question. I'm also willing to send a few emails and simply ask for permission .

I uploaded packages here thanks M. , I thought this was currently the most relevant location on the site as it is on topic but there may be other uses in the future:

http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/Virtualization/VMWare/Source/driverkit-139.1-1.tar.gz
http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/Virtualization/VMWare/Source/kernel-1.tar.gz

If anyone perceives any problems developing with providing this old public domain source to the NeXT community or has questions please feel free to pm my hearts in it.

Best regards Rob
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Rudolf
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a million M. and R.,

just taking a quick look at the files, my guess was right, that the keyboard driver is silently dropping the scan codes for the Apple-(or Microsoft-, or Other-)Keys left and right of the space key. Admittedly, in 1992 there were no Microsoft-Keys on a PC-Keyboard. I think I will have some fun with that stuff.

Rudolf
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neozeed



Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 595
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:
Hello NeXT community : I'll be happy to upload any public domain software to the site. I don't believe there is anything legally wrong with it and if any issues were to develop I'll just delete any files in question. I'm also willing to send a few emails and simply ask for permission .

I uploaded packages here thanks M. , I thought this was currently the most relevant location on the site as it is on topic but there may be other uses in the future:

http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/Virtualization/VMWare/Source/driverkit-139.1-1.tar.gz
http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/Virtualization/VMWare/Source/kernel-1.tar.gz

If anyone perceives any problems developing with providing this old public domain source to the NeXT community or has questions please feel free to pm my hearts in it.

Best regards Rob


Wow awesome, the source to Darwin 0.1!

I don't suppose you ever saved ISO images of anything of that era?
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Morgon



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neozeed wrote:


Wow awesome, the source to Darwin 0.1!

I don't suppose you ever saved ISO images of anything of that era?


Sorry, no, neozeed.

I have some more parts of the kernel sources but no ISO-images. I had only a slow and timed ISDN connection the time they were on the ftp archives.
I got them from the old leo ftp archive before their big disk crash when they lost much of the unique NeXT stuff they had Sad.

The driverkit file belongs to Darwin 0.2 and was not contained in the 0.1 release. As written before unfortunately I did not try grab everything from 0.2 relying on the later availabilty on the archives Sad
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neozeed



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morgon wrote:
neozeed wrote:


Wow awesome, the source to Darwin 0.1!

I don't suppose you ever saved ISO images of anything of that era?


Sorry, no, neozeed.

I have some more parts of the kernel sources but no ISO-images. I had only a slow and timed ISDN connection the time they were on the ftp archives.
I got them from the old leo ftp archive before their big disk crash when they lost much of the unique NeXT stuff they had Sad.

The driverkit file belongs to Darwin 0.2 and was not contained in the 0.1 release. As written before unfortunately I did not try grab everything from 0.2 relying on the later availabilty on the archives Sad


Sigh, I've always taken these giant ftp sites for granted, and so many have disappeared, taking everything with them. I guess we are lucky to have what is available now, but how long until that is lost. I've spent so much time looking for old FSF stuff to find that almost nothing remains. I should see how much it costs to make DVDs or Blu-ray pressing, although giving them out will probably result in most going to landfill
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neozeed



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like my request for Darwin 0.3 hit paydirt!!!!!!!!!!!!


It's a toast image, so as soon as I figure out how to mount it, and export it we will have:



Code:
adv_cmds-24.1-2.tar.gz
apache-1.3.6-1.tar.gz
architecture-226-1.tar.gz
at_cmds-15.1-1.tar.gz
autoconf-2.12-1.tar.gz
awk-1998.10.20-1.tar.gz
bash-2.02.1-1.tar.gz
basic_cmds-25-1.tar.gz
bc-1.05-1.tar.gz
bison-1.25-1.tar.gz
boot-64-2.tar.gz
bootstrap_cmds-13.2-1.tar.gz
bsdmake-1997.11.10-1.tar.gz
buildtools-0.1-2.tar.gz
cc-783.1-1.tar.gz
cctools-295-2.tar.gz
cdis-156.1-3.tar.gz
CoreOSMakefiles-9.1-1.tar.gz
Csu-23.1-1.tar.gz
cvs-1.10-1.tar.gz
developer_cmds-1998.10.05-1.tar
diskdev_cmds-65.0-1.tar.gz
doc_cmds-1998.10.05-1.tar.gz
dpkg-1.4.1.0.2-3.tar.gz
dpkg_scriptlib-0.2-1.tar.gz
driverkit-139.1-3.tar.gz
driverTools-24-1.tar.gz
drvEIDE-33-1.tar.gz
boot-64-2.tar.gz
buildtools-0.1-2.tar.gz
cdis-156.1-3.tar.gz
cvs-1.10-1.tar.gz
doc_cmds-1998.10.05-1.tar.gz
driverkit-139.1-3.tar.gz
files-282.0-5.tar.gz
file_cmds-1998.10.06-1.tar.gz
flex-2.5.4a-1.tar.gz
drvPExpert-29-1.tar.gz
egcs-1.tar.gz
enscript-1.6.0-1.tar.gz
gawk-3.0.3-1.tar.gz
gdb-142-1.tar.gz
gm4-1.4-1.tar.gz
gnudiff-2.7-1.tar.gz
gnumake-67-1.tar.gz
gnutar-1.12-1.tar.gz
gnuzip-1.2.4-1.tar.gz
grep-2.1-1.tar.gz
groff-1.11a-1.tar.gz
hfs-67.1-1.tar.gz
kernel-154.5.1-7.tar.gz
kernload-60-1.tar.gz
keymaps-25.1-1.tar.gz
less-332-1.tar.gz
Libc-78.8-1.tar.gz
LibcAT-27.1-1.tar.gz
Libcompat-12-1.tar.gz
Libcurses-19-1.tar.gz
Libedit-13-1.tar.gz
libgpp-100.1-1.tar.gz
Libinfo-44.2-1.tar.gz
Libkvm-9.1-1.tar.gz
Libm-15-1.tar.gz
Librpcsvc-8-1.tar.gz
Libstreams-15.2-1.tar.gz
Libsystem-25.1-2.tar.gz
Libtelnet-11-1.tar.gz
drvPExpert-29-1.tar.gz
files-282.0-5.tar.gz
gawk-3.0.3-1.tar.gz
gnudiff-2.7-1.tar.gz
gnuzip-1.2.4-1.tar.gz
hfs-67.1-1.tar.gz
keymaps-25.1-1.tar.gz
LibcAT-27.1-1.tar.gz
Libedit-13-1.tar.gz
Libkvm-9.1-1.tar.gz
Libstreams-15.2-1.tar.gz
Libutil-12-1.tar.gz
Liby-10-1.tar.gz
m4-1998.10.06-1.tar.gz
machkit-318.2-1.tar.gz
mail_cmds-1998.10.07-1.tar.gz
misc_cmds-1997.11.10-1.tar.gz
ncftp-2.4.3-1.tar.gz
network_cmds-57-1.tar.gz
nmserver-28-1.tar.gz
ntp-4.0.72j-1.tar.gz
objc-210-1.tar.gz
objc4-174-1.tar.gz
patch-2.5-1.tar.gz
pb_makefiles-89.5.1-1.tar.gz
perl-5.004_04-1.tar.gz
project_makefiles-118.2.1-1.tar
rcs-5.7-1.tar.gz
rsync-1.6.8-1.tar.gz
sendmail-8.9.1-1.tar.gz
shell_cmds-1998.10.09-2.tar.gz
sounds-15-1.tar.gz
system_cmds-51.1-2.tar.gz
system_config-46-1.tar.gz
tcl-8.0.4-1.tar.gz
tcp_wrappers-7.6-1.tar.gz
tcsh-6.08.00-1.tar.gz
text_cmds-1997.11.10-1.tar.gz
usrtemplate-7.1-1.tar.gz
vi-1.79-1.tar.gz
volfs-0-2.tar.gz
wget-1.4.5-1.tar.gz
yacc-1998.10.12-1.tar.gz
zlib-1.1.3-1.tar.gz
Libutil-12-1.tar.gz
machkit-318.2-1.tar.gz
ncftp-2.4.3-1.tar.gz
ntp-4.0.72j-1.tar.gz
patch-2.5-1.tar.gz
project_makefiles-118.2.1-1.tar
sendmail-8.9.1-1.tar.gz
system_cmds-51.1-2.tar.gz
tcp_wrappers-7.6-1.tar.gz
usrtemplate-7.1-1.tar.gz
wget-1.4.5-1.tar.gz



And as suspected driver-139 is Darwin 0.3!
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