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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:50 pm    Post subject: How to Clean Install NEXTSTEP on Previous Reply with quote

Hi All:

3 Questions:

(1) How do you do a fresh install?

I have NeXTSTEP 3.3 and OPENSTEP 4.2 original CDs and made ISOs of them. If I recall, there was a way to boot off the CDs so you could do a fresh install on a target SCSI drive. Does anyone remember how to do this?

ANSWERED:

Previous.app System settings should be as follows:
    -Set your system to NOT be a NeXT Dimension system during the install. It seems to bomb with a Dimension card set in Previous.app.
    -I did the install using Variable/Turbo and Ram set to 60ns
    -Boot order was set to floppy
    -Floppy drive was active and set to boot from an image of the moto3.3.floppy image
    -SCSI Disk 0 as Harddisk - empty2GB.dd
    -SCSI Disk 1 read-only CD-ROM - NeXTSTEP USER 3.3.iso


The following link are to an image of both NEXTSTEP 3.3 CD and the needed boot floppy image (thanks to drakar):
https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2

Process:
    -Once you boot off the floppy, go through the command line install process.
    -After the system reboots and boots into the GUI package installer, deselect ALL optional packages and hit Install
    -Once the system fully boots up, log into the root user, mount the 3.3. User install CD, and install packages from that CD which can be found in the path: NextCD/Packages



(2) What is the most complete way to install NeXT/OPENSTEP?

I vaguely remember what you want to do is a clean install of NeXTSTEP 3.3 first. Then from that clean install run an upgrade app for OPENSTEP 4.2 to upgrade over NeXTSTEP 3.3. If I remember this is because some of the 3.3 libraries do not exist on 4.2 and apps that have not been upgraded for 4.2 like Improv and maybe some others, need those 3.3 libraries. Does anyone remember if this is correct?


(3) How do you set up a 4GB partition?

Previous.app seems to come with a bunch of disks images. One is an empty 2GB image. But I don't see an empty 4GB partition. Does anyone know how to make a 4GB partition?


Thanks so much for any help! BTW, using Previous 2.2


Last edited by zombie on Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:40 am; edited 6 times in total
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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I have tried making the ISO 3.3 User cdrom boot drive as a cdrom as either device 0 or 1 on SCSI. It does the very initial commandline installation.

However, after it reboots, the install gets stuck. I've tried many combinations of ejecting the CD, or doing a bsd(1,0,0) to try to boot from the target 2GB partition that i'm installing on. But the install keeps getting hung saying it gave up on mounting /NEXTSTEP_INSTALL or something to that effect.

There has got to be a way to do a fresh install here. Has anyone done this successfully?

Thanks!
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mattsoft



Joined: 29 Jan 2019
Posts: 9
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are using a SCSI2SD, download this image:

https://winworldpc.com/download/c3bc687b-1253-3e11-c3a4-c2a90f7054ef

Extract and then:

sudo dd if=NS32_2GB.dd of=/dev/disk# conv=fdatasync

You're all set!
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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsoft wrote:
If you are using a SCSI2SD, download this image:

https://winworldpc.com/download/c3bc687b-1253-3e11-c3a4-c2a90f7054ef

Extract and then:

sudo dd if=NS32_2GB.dd of=/dev/disk# conv=fdatasync

You're all set!


Thanks. I have images from this forum that already have 3.3 and 4.2 installed. And they work with previous just fine.

The problem is I donít trust installations made by others, spyware/virus/etc (I understand that is highly unlikely but I need to trust the provenance of the operating system).

And the other problem is I donít understand how others managed to successful do an install with previous when it keeps hanging for me... perhaps they did the install on actual next hardware, and then imaged the result for use as a previous image?
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mikeboss



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 375
Location: switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zombie wrote:
perhaps they did the install on actual next hardware, and then imaged the result for use as a previous image?


that's exactly how I did it...
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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeboss wrote:
zombie wrote:
perhaps they did the install on actual next hardware, and then imaged the result for use as a previous image?


that's exactly how I did it...


Hmm so for some reason, the emulator is not compatible enough to do a fresh install. So strange. Iíll take a screen shot to show where it hangs, maybe it will help.
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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So for starters, the emulator will not boot correctly if you set the drives up as follows (this is with boot options set to rom monitor so you can try to kick from your preferred drive):

SCSI Disk 0 as Harddisk - empty2GB.dd
SCSI Disk 1 read-only CD-ROM - NeXTSTEP USER 3.3.iso

When you do a rom monitor command of:

    bsd(1,0,0)

the rom monitor kicks back "no SCSI disk"

So then I tried making it as follows:

SCSI Disk 0 read-only CD-ROM - NeXTSTEP USER 3.3.iso
SCSI Disk 1 as Harddisk - empty2GB.dd

after that, the "bsd" command boots into the install CD and you get the:

Code:
Type 1 to use the English language and USA keyboard while installing NEXSTEP...


you hit 1.

And then you get a prompt to:

Code:
The startup disk on this computer is:
      SCSI Disk at target 1 (Previous HDD) - 1919 MB

Type 1 to install NEXTSTEP on this disk...


you hit 1.

Then it says:

Code:
Ready to install NEXTSTEP

Type 1 to start installing NEXTSTEP...


you hit 1

Then it says:

Code:
Preparing disk for NEXTSTEP installation.
This may take a few minutes...



and then shows installation progress like:

Code:
Installing /usr/lib/...
===========>............................


That all goes great. That preliminary install suceeds, but then, it asks you to reboot. You type RETURN for it to reboot. It does.

But now it will boot back into the CDROM. If you eject the CDROM and enter the "bsd(1,0,0)" command, it will again fail with the "no SCSI disk" error. So now your only option is to reconfigure the SCSI disk to make the 2GB SCSI0 and the CDROM SCSI1.

When you do this, it seemingly starts to boot correctly.

It gets to the following part:

Code:
en:0 address automatically set to 192.0.1.20
lo0: address automatically set to 127.0.0.1
Setting hostname to -AUTOMATIC-


And it hangs there for quite a while. You can hit Ctrl-C and break it out sooner, but if you wait it will say

Code:
Configuration server not responding to request for hostname
Do nothing to keep waiting or press 'c' to continue


type c and then it will freeze here:

Code:
Reinitializing nmserver's network portion
mount: /dev/sd0a on /NEXTSTEP_INSTALL: Device busy
mount: giving up on:
    /private/vm/swapfile.front
/user/etc/mach_swapon: swapping on /private/vm/swapfile
Cleaning up: /etc/nologin ptys floppy devices editors /tmp /NET
Starting early deamons: Nov 11 12:30:24 localhost syslogd: cannot create /dev/log: Read-only file system
Starting RPC and network services: portmap routed netinfo lookupd


You can then hit Ctrl-C a bunch of times and you'll get a bit farther in the boot, but it will still eventually hang at "Starting standard daemons: update cron"

So for whatever reason it cannot mount the CD Rom install when you swap the drive SCSI0/1 order even though the CDROM is there.

The problem seems to be that for whatever reason, the bsd(1,0,0) command does not work. I think if it did, I would just keep the boot order the same after the initial install and it should finish.

Appreciate any thoughts/insights.


Last edited by zombie on Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, is there a way to upload screen shots when posting on here. Or must we host the screenshots on other websites and link to them?

I think it would be great if we could upload directly to the site so the screen caps/etc. stay permanently here.
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drakar



Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.
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eagle



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 459

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drakar wrote:
Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.

I always thought that to boot NS/OS on black hardware required an installed disk (either optical or hard drive, or floppy). My understanding was always that black hardware would not boot directly from CD.
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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagle wrote:
drakar wrote:
Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.

I always thought that to boot NS/OS on black hardware required an installed disk (either optical or hard drive, or floppy). My understanding was always that black hardware would not boot directly from CD.


I do not think that is correct.

First, it definitely does boot! And even does the first part of the install correctly (see above excerpts).

Also, The cdrom is just another scsi drive.

Iím not sure there were ever any boot floppies for installation on black hardware. Either magneto, or the external scsi cdrom next sold for a while. Could be wrong, but it definitely can and does boot and have an installer on the cd
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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drakar wrote:
Have you tried using the boot floppy?
I just tried booting from CD and got the same results you had, but using the floppy worked for some reason.
I put the HD on ID 0 and CD on ID 4. The boot floppy searches for a cd drive, finds it and then installs fine. The floppy image I'm using is from the winworld 3.3 archive, 3.3_Moto_Boot_Disk.img.


No I havenít. I didnít even know a blackhardware boot floppy existed! I donít think my original software came with one!? Iíll have to look. In the mean time could you provide a link where I might find the floppy image?

Thanks so much, guess Iím wrong about the floppies.
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drakar



Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2

The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.

It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.
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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drakar wrote:
Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2

The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.

It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.


I do not remember needing this when I had my cube. Mostly because I never owned a floppy for it..l interesting...

Thanks so much for the pointer!
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zombie



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drakar wrote:
Sure, here's the 3.3 archive: https://winworldpc.com/download/41c2a3cb-9cc2-a118-c39a-11c3a4e284a2

The CD image has intel in the name but it's for m68k as well.

It doesn't seem like the floppy does much other than detect the CD drive and then boot from that, but it must be doing something else to make it work.


So wait a second, the link goes to an image of NEXTSTEP USER 3.3 CD, not a floppy. I tried setting it to the image used by floppy but i get an error that you can use floppies that are 1.44 or 2.88MB.

Did you mean use the NEXTSTEP USER 3.3 CD.iso and select it as a SCSI disk4 but, instead of labeling that as a CDROM, label it as read only floppy?

If so, what do you have set for your boot order? Mine if I leave the SCSI boot order as first, it fails to boot because then SCSI0 is an empty disk. If I try the bsd(4,0,0) command using the monitor as the boot order, then it fails. Sad

I am missing something. Sad
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