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LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB?
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jdemas



Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 4
Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB? Reply with quote

I've gone through a lot of posts to see what LCD monitors work well with the NextStation TurboColor ADB.

There are some LCD monitors that image with the ADB computers... BUT they stretch the vertical image so that the recycler and bottom of the screen are running off the viewable area and also exhibit distortion of the image.

So, does anyone have actual experience with a 19-24" LCD monitor that works with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB... and perfectly... with no stretching or distortion of the image at all... just as if it were a NeXT monitor? (so displayed images, text and drawing all look true and accurate)

Thanks.

-- Jim

PS... I'll point out that I don't mind if there are black bars or unused space on the monitor... I just don't want any distortion or stretching of the image. Along with the model number, it would be really great if someone can post a picture showing the screen display of an LCD that works great.
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sdinet



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my Dell 2009W works perfectly!
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jdemas



Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 4
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks sdinet!

I have a couple of other questions... as I want to order something right away and want to make sure I don't make a mistake...

1) Are you running an ADB NeXTstsation TurboColor? (if not, what are you running?)

2) I just checked at Dell and they make two 2009 models... the 2009W and the 2009WFP. Just to doublecheck... yours is the 2009W?

3) I need to know that when a circle is imaged, it is a circle and not an oval. You've got perfect imaging with no distortion or bleeding?

4) Are there black borders just on the left and right... or is there a black border all the way around?

5) A 13w3 to VGA connector and VGA gender changer is necessary to work with the NeXT Y cable. Do you know whose connectors you used and where you got them? Did they have to be modified or have any pins removed to work?

Thank you very much. I appreciate your help.

-- Jim
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sdinet



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1> Yes I have tested it via an ADB Turbo Color

2> I says 2009Wt on the back, my e207wfp also works too!

3> The circle is a perfect circle and is 1:1

4> There are black borders all around (about 0.5" on top and bottom, and 1.5" on the sides)

5> I recommend a 12" pigtail-style adapter I found on ebay, it is 13w3 Female to VGA Male.
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jdemas



Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 4
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB? Reply with quote

I have now tried a number of Dell monitors with my NeXTstation TurboColor ADB… and will report what I have found out. Note that my unit is a last generation NeXTstation TurboColor with ADB keyboard and soundbox and 72hz vertical sync (earlier non-ADB units are 68hz vertical sync).

One of the requirements of a monitor to work with the NeXT is that is must sync on green (SOG). The Dell monitors I will mention do all list their ability to sync on green.

First… I bought a Dell 2009wt per the above recommendation. It is 1680x1050 resolution. It imaged… was very grainy and not at all well defined as per the NeXT displays (like my 21” before it developed a bad power supply) . Worse yet, the image was elongated to the point where the recycler at the bottom of the dock was virtually off the screen at the bottom (barely visible)… and the bottom of full length windows was not visible, either. Note: I have a full dock… 13 items on my dock... so it runs the full length of the screen height.

My guess is that the previous poster tried the monitor with a TurboColor... but the original soundbox and keyboard and not the ADB soundbox and keyboard (instead of the 72hz sync rate of the ADB soundbox, the original soundboxes have a 68hz sync rate… and seem to work fine with non-NeXT monitors). In fact, I even ordered a 13w3 to VGA Sun adapter per the poster’s recommendation from a link he sent me from eBay.

I am very appreciative of the help he offered… but my guess is that he just did not notice that the image was bleeding off the bottom (if his dock was not filled, he would not have noticed it… and if he did not have a full length window open, it would not be noticed, either).

The monitor has the ability to display what the signal is that it is getting. It is interesting to find that the monitor said it was imaging the signal from the NeXT as 1024x768 at 72hz. It could not see the full resolution of 1120x832 at 72hz. This monitor clearly does not work properly with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB.

Second... I bought a 1907fp which is a 1280x1024 monitor. The image also appeared grainy… and did the same thing in terms of stretching the image vertically as the 2009wt did… and lost the recycler at the bottom and lost the bottom of full length windows. It is interesting to find that it also said it was imaging the signal from the NeXT as 1024x768 at 72hz… same as the other monitor. Again, it could not see the full resolution of 1120x832 at 72hz. This monitor clearly does not work properly with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB.

Third... I bought a Dell 2007fp which is a 1600x1200 monitor as it has an option in the display settings for 1:1 reproduction (unlike the other monitors already mentioned). Figuring that this was exactly what was needed to properly image whatever signal the NeXT was sending it… I had high hopes. In 1:1, the monitor does image in the right aspect ratio... so there are large black borders all around the image… but the bleeding of the dock and the bottom of windows at the bottom of the imaged area is still present… same as if it is full screen and stretching the image! It is interesting to find that it also said it was imaging the signal from the NeXT as 1024x768 at 72hz. Again ,not 1120x832 at 72hz. It can’t see the NeXT resolution properly, so part of the image is not viewable. This monitor clearly does not work properly with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB, either.

This 2007fp is, by far, the best of the three monitors in terms of what the image looks like. I also has the tightest dot pitch of the three at .255. It is the crispest of the three... especially at 1:1… but the image is pretty small… and there is still the bleeding desktop off the bottom of the imaged area to contend with.

There are guys who have gotten flat panels to work well but they are all using non-ADB soundboxes and keyboards from what I have seen. I am not the only one to see the bleeding issue with non-NeXT monitors… Rob Blessin at Black Hole has experienced this bleeding issue, too, with ADB units and non-NeXT monitors. He’s been a great help in looking at things with me, too. If you ever need NeXT stuff… I highly recommend him.

Thus far… it seems that getting a flat panel to work with the NeXTstation TurboColor with ADB soundbox and ADB keyboard is an elusive proposition.

So… I am not sure where to go with this now. Do I try a different 13w3 to VGA adapter? Could this Sun adapter be the issue? It is part number 530-2917… which I purchased here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290310020481&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

This is sure frustrating…

-- Jim
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Thomas



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 58
Location: Fremont, CA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems others have the same issue. Shocked
I found a pretty big list of monitors that have been tested for SOG here: Linux for PlayStation 2 Community Sync on Green Monitor DB

It lists if the monitor was tested working or tested not working with sync on green.

And I also found some interesting posts on how to get every monitor to work: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/55566-3-sync-green-adapter

And here is an instruction how to build your own sync splitter: Xbox VGA HOWTO
While it is for the Xbox it might give some helpfull hints.

My search also turned up some of the shelf sync splitter that should work just fine (they even mention NeXT):
7053 sync separator - sync on green to separate
7052 sync converter - composite to separate
They are both 99 USD but I think I'll give it a try. I just need to find out which is the right one.
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Thomas



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 58
Location: Fremont, CA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I have an old Dell 2001FP that seems to work just with the Sun 13W3 to VGA adapter. Though my system doesn't boot and right now I only get through the system tests. But that screen is displayed perfectly.
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Thomas



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 58
Location: Fremont, CA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:
I can confirm that the Dell 2001FP works also in color mode without distortion and edge to edge (no black stripes). But that is still only in the first color installation screen (the one where you select languages and software packages)
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t-rexky



Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 273
Location: Snowy Canada

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB Reply with quote

jdemas wrote:
I've gone through a lot of posts to see what LCD monitors work well with the NextStation TurboColor ADB.

There are some LCD monitors that image with the ADB computers... BUT they stretch the vertical image so that the recycler and bottom of the screen are running off the viewable area and also exhibit distortion of the image.

So, does anyone have actual experience with a 19-24" LCD monitor that works with the NeXTstation TurboColor ADB... and perfectly... with no stretching or distortion of the image at all... just as if it were a NeXT monitor? (so displayed images, text and drawing all look true and accurate)

Thanks.

-- Jim

PS... I'll point out that I don't mind if there are black bars or unused space on the monitor... I just don't want any distortion or stretching of the image. Along with the model number, it would be really great if someone can post a picture showing the screen display of an LCD that works great.


This is a bit of an old post, but I just went through a lot of effort trying to resurrect my ADB TurboColor Station and found a great monitor solution in the process. My Sony manufactured color monitor was dead after many years in the garage - the dreaded HV protection circuit was cutting it out a few seconds after power-on. I tried fixing it, but could not find a sufficiently representative schematic. Ultimately it got recycled, and I spent a very long time researching LCD panels. And as a side note - tech support at all of major monitor manufacturers is utterly useless in dealing with this type of an unusual request.

I focused on 19" 1280x1024 monitors, as they are the closest to what the NeXT puts out. First up were my Dell UltraSharp 1907FP and my ViewSonic VP930b - both failed with stretched and cropped image. I believe that most of the consumer grade monitors WILL NOT WORK, since they only accept VESA standard resolutions. So then I moved in the direction of EIZO, but could not find anything reasonably priced. Finally I started looking at NEC branded displays. Long story short - I now have a NEC MultiSync LCD 1980sx and it works 100%, with perfect sync and 1:1 pixel accuracy (centred with slight black borders). It can also fill the whole display with the NeXT image, but this breaks the aspect ratio and is not quite as sharp.

Here is how I adjusted the monitor, since the auto adjust function was at first cropping the image:

1. Activate the 'Advanced OSM' by turning ON the monitor with the front "POWER" button while pressing the "SELECT" button.
2. Navigate to OSM menu item '9' and press "SELECT" on the 'MODE' item.
3. Adjust to set the NeXT display resolution of 1120 by 832.
4. Power the monitor OFF and then back ON with the front "POWER" button.
5. Navigate to OSM menu item 'AUTO' and select 'AUTO ADJUST'.
6. Enjoy a 1:1 pixel perfect display from your NeXT, or modify the scaling to fill the whole display.


I am sure that this will work for both ADB and also non-ADB machines. I am also convinced that ALL NEC MultiSync LCD monitors that are specified to support 1280x1024 "at 60 Hz to 75 Hz", sync-on-green and have the 'Advanced OSM' menu can be adjusted the same way.

I hope this saves some time and aggravation to people looking for replacement monitors.


Last edited by t-rexky on Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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cubist



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:08 am    Post subject: Re: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB Reply with quote

I picked up one of these for my NextDimension and this looks very good. While my LCD has the same designation, the steps I went through were a bit different:

  1. Power up system and monitor.
  2. Hit 'Exit' to get to OSM display.
  3. Select Tab '9' and set resolution to 1120 by 832.
  4. Select Tab '7' then 'Expansion Mode' and turn off all expansion.
  5. Select Tab '4' and select the 'Auto Adjust' function. Monitor will fiddle with frame and it should be correctly centered.
  6. There's also a 'Fine' control to adjust positioning to help get rid of any text blur.


Yes, there's a lot of black border with that but the text imaging is the best I've seen on an LCD so far. The NEC is quite a good monitor.
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t-rexky



Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 273
Location: Snowy Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: LCD that works perfectly with NextStation TurboColor ADB Reply with quote

cubist wrote:
I picked up one of these for my NextDimension and this looks very good. While my LCD has the same designation, the steps I went through were a bit different:

  1. Power up system and monitor.
  2. Hit 'Exit' to get to OSM display.
  3. Select Tab '9' and set resolution to 1120 by 832.
  4. Select Tab '7' then 'Expansion Mode' and turn off all expansion.
  5. Select Tab '4' and select the 'Auto Adjust' function. Monitor will fiddle with frame and it should be correctly centered.
  6. There's also a 'Fine' control to adjust positioning to help get rid of any text blur.


Yes, there's a lot of black border with that but the text imaging is the best I've seen on an LCD so far. The NEC is quite a good monitor.


Interesting - it looks like your monitor somehow defaults to the advanced OSM mode. Mine will not enable the numerical (advanced) tab menus unless I hold 'SELECT' while pressing the front 'POWER' switch first. Without that I just get the standard OSM menu that does not allow entry of the exact pixel resolution.

Really glad that the monitor works well for you!
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nextchef



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had good luck with older 18in SUN LCD panels, both the lsa800 and the newer GH18PS, using 13w3 to VGA adapters and gender changers. They are getting harder to find, and are obviously used, but they do work well.
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sdinet



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I now this is an OLD post, but jdemas did your Dell 2009wt look like mine below? I don't see the elongated image or sheeting or cut-off you describe... Asking, because I am recommending an LCD to a friend and want to ensure it works for their NeXTcube Dimension.

Thanks!



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pitz



Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 122
Location: Oregon, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I remember reading and also experienced, the cropping was due to the combination of a TurboColor and an ADB soundbox (something about having an ADB bus needing to change the sync frequency). I don't think the NextDimension board had the problem.

IIRC, I had a different NEC LCD monitor but it did not have the same OSM controls to set the 1120x832 resolution, so I still had the cropping issue.
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barcher174



Joined: 07 Dec 2012
Posts: 560

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am using an NEC multisync 1990SX with an ADB nextstation color and it works great. There is a 1/2 inch black bar at the top of the screen, but I don't find it bothersome. A huge step up from my dim CRT!

--
Brian
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