NeXT Computers Forum Index NeXT Computers
www.NeXTComputers.org
 
Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages

Log inLog in  RegisterRegister


Profile  Search  Memberlist  FAQ  Usergroups
What Needs to be done for a NeXT Emulator
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 74, 75, 76, 77, 78  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    NeXT Computers Forum Index -> Emulation / Virtualization
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 415
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@t-rexky: Thank you very much for testing! I'm glad the crash is gone. This patch will be included within the upcoming v1.7 release of Previous.

@all: To confirm a bug related to networking I need a test on real hardware:
Any black hardware running NeXTstep 3.3 and connected to the network using thinwire Ethernet connection. Make sure no application is running that uses the network. Then start OmniWeb 2.7 and see if it prints "The network is disabled or your computer isn't connected to it." to the console. You don't need to open any page. It would print the message during startup of OmniWeb.
If you don't have OmniWeb you can alternatively ping some non-existent IP. That should have the same effect. So does anyone get this message on the console, although the network is connected and working?

btw. I'm still looking for results for my FPU test program that I posted here a few weeks ago.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rob Blessin Black Hole
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 591
Location: Ft. Collins, Colorado

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello I'll see what I can do when I get back home this evening I'll set up an 030 system and test it out,
_________________
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay sales@blackholeinc.com http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community since 2/9/93
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jminiko



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject: Previous site not available..? Reply with quote

Hello,

http://previous.alternative-system.com is not reachable,
Infinite loop detected in JError as
but backup git source site is:
https://github.com/lewellyn/previous

was wondering why

Regards

Jean-Marc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
neozeed



Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 687
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that code is very old..... try the current repo:

https://sourceforge.net/p/previous/code/HEAD/tree/
_________________
# include <wittycomment.h>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 415
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a question to all networking hardware experts out there:

Imagine a machine connected to a network using thin wire Ethernet. The transceiver of the machine is set up to accept directly addressed packets and broadcast packets. The machine transmits a broadcast packet to the network.

Will this packet be received by the sending machine? Or more generally: Can the transceiver see his own packets?

If yes, is this only true for thin wire Ethernet, or is it also true for twisted-pair Ethernet?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
neozeed



Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 687
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on my understanding a improperly terminated thin net would reflect the packets so you could then see yourself.

Otherwise I'd say no, you shouldn't see yourself, however something like pcap knows you sent something and it'd register it and it'd look like you can see yourself.

When I was hacking Basilisk II a bit, I had to add a filter to make sure I didn't see myself. I don't think Basilisk cared so much,but it was a waste of time examining packets that it didn't need. But it's HLE. I'd imagine that with LLE it may confuse the nic driver as to when it can transmit, or why it's immediately getting a reply back from itself... The hardware chip should handle a bit about collision detection, I'm not sure about the chip NeXT used thought.
_________________
# include <wittycomment.h>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 415
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeXT used the Fujitsu 502B Ethernet Encoder/Decoder combined with Fujitsu MB8795B Ethernet Data Link Controller.

This combination of chips can detect collisions and indicate them through various status bits. But I'm not sure my problem is related to collisions. It seems that the driver expects to see its own packets echoed back. I might be wrong though.

There is even a bit "Transmitted Packet was Received" in the transmitter status register. I initially thought this was related to loopback mode. But it seems to be more than that. Quote from the data sheet:
Quote:
Bit 5 - Read - Transmitted Packet was Received - Indicates that shortly after transmission was completed a good packet was received by the receiver. This is used to indicate self-reception of the packet, which allows the software to take advantage of the hardware address matching even in systems which are designed for half duplex operation. This bit is cleared as each transmission begins.


I have problems understanding this. It does not sound as if this bit signals an error condition. But it also is not clear about if self-reception is normal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
neozeed



Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 687
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it expects to see it's own packet and I'd assume it is set to 1 after transmit. But as soon as a packet it going to be sent it'll get cleared...

We really need to get you access to a 68k. Is a 040 good enough? Like a mono next station?
_________________
# include <wittycomment.h>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
t-rexky



Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 271
Location: Snowy Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neozeed wrote:
We really need to get you access to a 68k. Is a 040 good enough? Like a mono next station?


I've been "working on" Andreas a bit behind the scenes to get real NeXT hardware Very Happy , but he has space challenges.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 415
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neozeed, thank you for the offer/suggestion! But as t-rexky already mentioned, I have limited space and therefore it is unlikely to get a permanent place to run black hardware.

For the networking issue: I'm still interested in some kind of confirmation that my conclusion on self-reception is correct. I don't want to hide a potential bug by emulating some bogus behavior just to make the driver happy. This would make future debugging even harder.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rob Blessin Black Hole
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 591
Location: Ft. Collins, Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello: All: I've been trying to get a NeXT hooked up to my Comcast Network , has anyone done this? I have previous working just fine and thought I would be able to move that image onto an sd boot and go on a NeXT. It lloks like the key is configuring etc/resolv
Heck Andreas, I thought you had a NeXT? You have been doing absolutely amazing NeXT stuff with out one! Heck I will gladly donate a NeXT MonoTurbo Station to you , if you just cover shipping. We will put new caps on the board and I'll configure with with an SD , max out the ram I also throw in a modified soundbox shell that is dual compatible and the custom cable you can use for hooking it up to a flat panel and an ADB Keyboard and ADB NeXT Mouse . I'll also put in a New old stock floppy drive and new old stock power supply and update to a V74 rom that is how much I appreciate your work.
I'm not a rich man but I sincerely would like to help you out , medical expenses due to rheumatoid arthritis flare ups , aging and just bills are starting to rack up . I have not been as active because of the pain but good news is they are starting me on Embrel which should help, it is sticker shock how much they charge for embrel $500 to $2000 a month for Embrel but I'm hoping it will be covered and I won't loose my insurance due to this prexisting RA condition and new potential cruel insurance policy that may be implemented .
I've bought or traded for most of the NeXT stuff I'm donating to you and paid the labor on the caps but it is about heart and not about the money. So if you find space and want to cover shipping I'm estimating from the USPS about $135 just pm me. My NeXT eBay sales and other web sales still keep the lights on so it is a lot of fun for me . A station would not take up very much space please let me know! Very Happy
_________________
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay sales@blackholeinc.com http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community since 2/9/93
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 415
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob, thank you for the generous offer! If I decide to finally get some black hardware I'll come back to you and we can talk about the price. But first I definitely need to sort out my living space issues.

I'm sorry to hear about your health problems. I hope it gets better through the medication!

About networking: Previous comes with some instructions on how to set up networking. Those instructions should also work for real hardware, if you replace the IP-addresses with the appropriate values for your network setup.

I'm now quite confident, that on thin wire Ethernet packets can be received by the sending machine, while they are transmitted. I asked some people and while no one could confirm this behavior, they agreed that it is at least plausible. I have a patch here but need to test it a bit more before releasing. The message "The network is disabled ..." is definitely gone when using the patch and until now I could not see any new problems.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 415
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,

it took me longer than expected but finally I was able to finalize Previous v1.7!

This release concentrates mainly on improving accuracy and reliability. There are not much new features, but it adds the ability to choose between thin wire or twisted pair ethernet connection. This is mostly for the sake of completeness.

More noticeable changes include faster devices in variable speed mode and more realistic device timings in normal speed mode. Host CPU usage is now almost zero while Previous is paused, which should make it much more "battery friendly".
Ethernet connection stability has been improved. There should be no more lost connections in regular use. Sound no longer causes lags in responsiveness under certain very important use cases (PacMan). Wink

Probably the most important improvement is a fix of a long standing 68040 MMU bug that caused kernel panics with the message "Unexpected kernel page fault failure: MMU invalid descriptor during table walk" and some hangs and weird behavior, especially during network transfers.
Furthermore FPU stability has been improved. It now runs FPSP without any known problem.

There are also changes that are not visible for the user:
Previous no longer needs floating point data types. This means it is completely independent from the host's floating point format, which not only improves portability, but also makes it possible to emulate the FPU bit perfect (except for transcendental 68882 instructions, like FSIN, FLOGN, FETOX, which match FPSP results). Previous now has full support for floating point exceptions! This is probably the world's most advanced 68k FPU emulation, by far! Many thanks go to Toni Wilen (WinUAE) for doing lots of FPU tests for me on his Amiga hardware. The changes are also available in the latest version of WinUAE (v2.5).

There are also some minor improvements. For example Previous no longer crashes, if you run it with write protected disk images.

I hope with added reliabilty Previous is now even more fun to use!

You can load Previous v1.7 for Mac OS X v10.6 or later here.

If you experience any issues, please don't hesitate to report them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rob Blessin Black Hole
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 591
Location: Ft. Collins, Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Andreas! Cool Great work, I've uploaded it to the archive http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/
_________________
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay sales@blackholeinc.com http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community since 2/9/93
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
eagle



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Andreas! I have added it to my website at previous.unixdude.net.
_________________
My NeXTs:
NeXT Computer prototype (68030-25 x2, 68040-25)
Two NeXTstations (68040-25)
All mono
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    NeXT Computers Forum Index -> Emulation / Virtualization All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 74, 75, 76, 77, 78  Next
Page 75 of 78

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2017 phpBB Group