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Wackymacs
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject: Dead? Reply with quote

This forum, sadly, seems really dead. Not much posting activity, and most the members never seem to be online. Was it always like this or did something happen? Question
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Nitro
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Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 415
Location: Littleton, Colorado USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These forums cater to fans of a small computer company that ceased to exist 10 years ago, so I doubt there will ever be high traffic here. Smile The forums have only been running for ~ 7 months now so there isnít a lot of traffic history, but itís about the same as the old forums at openstep.se.
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RacerX



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Twin Cities, MN

PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most computer forums have posts asking for help with technical issues... the lack of general activity is a direct result of the lack of users with issues.

:roll:

Which actually says a lot about the stability of NeXT products... and the lack of new (and inexperienced) users of the platform. Laughing



When looking at computer communities, the activity in their related forums is proportional to the number of users of those platforms. Windows has a much larger set of users than Macs, so their forums tend to be more active. Macs have a much larger set of users than SGIs or Suns, so their forums tend to be more active. SGIs and Suns have a much larger set of users than NeXT, so their forums tend to be more active. NeXT has a much larger set of users than Rhapsody (of which I'm most likely the last truly active daily user of that platform), so their forums tend to be more active*.

NeXT is a small community. And even then, many users aren't even full time users anymore. That makes it hard to find things to talk about.



* I had thought about starting up a Rhapsody Forum, but past attempts created forums slower than this one.

...and besides, I'm already considered odd for using a platform which hardly had any users to begin with, posting mainly to myself would only make me seem all that much more eccentric.

...as if that was even possible.
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blackcube



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Sherman, Texas USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Dead? Reply with quote

Wackymacs wrote:
This forum, sadly, seems really dead. Not much posting activity, and most the members never seem to be online. Was it always like this or did something happen? Question


Traffic on this site and www.nextarchive.org is positively jumping compared to that on www.bebox.nu. But there you are dealing with a system that sold only 1800 of which probably only a couple of hundred survive to this day. Compare that to NeXT's estimated production of 50k systems. You can go for a month or so without a post on the BeBox Zone but if someone needs a answer to a problem, people pop up out of the woodwork to help.

As far as being never being online, I drop in once a day to check activity but with three daughters, a 60hr a week job and other things in life to do, dealing with classic computers is low priority hobby.

I agree with RacerX. Once you get something running or installed on a NeXT, you rarely have to mess with it. And even new NeXT owners and users learn very quickly on such an intutive paltform that the need for help and handholding quickly drops to a minimum. NS on black hardware is truly a very stable platform. It is my favorite platform followed by a Mac-Sgi tie and then by Be and Sun. I hesitate to call Windows or Linux on intel platforms, since no one entity has control of all software and hardware.

Look at the low activity and posting level as a blessing. You don't have to wade through all of the m0dderZ and script kiddZ crap to get to the nuggets of useful information.
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Wackymacs
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh i know the activity is always going to be quite low because there are not millions of next users and as you say the company ceased to exist 10 years back.

its just for a few days i saw no new postings, thats all.
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brams



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 508
Location: Blackburn, England

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RacerX wrote:
When looking at computer communities, the activity in their related forums is proportional to the number of users of those platforms. Windows has a much larger set of users than Macs, so their forums tend to be more active. Macs have a much larger set of users than SGIs or Suns, so their forums tend to be more active. SGIs and Suns have a much larger set of users than NeXT, so their forums tend to be more active.


True, however I'm surprised just how much activity there is on the SGI forum Nekochan, that place is buzzing with posts.

This is a very cool forum and I'm real glad it sprang up after the demise of the old forum at openstep.se, it's members have pulled me out of the dirt a couple of time.

Wackymacs, I think maybe you're expecting the near the same amount of action in this forum as you would at MLA68K to which you and I are also members, on that forum you can get a reply to a post within 60 seconds!, give this one time and things will improve. We're past 200 odd members now.
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RacerX



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Twin Cities, MN

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brams wrote:
Wackymacs, I think maybe you're expecting the near the same amount of action in this forum as you would at MLA68K to which you and I are also members, on that forum you can get a reply to a post within 60 seconds!

Yes but look at the incredible misinformation that you can get from those quick replies. Here is a great example:
    iMac600: What about Rhapsody, you only need to rewrite the whole OS to use a modem.

    wackymacs: LOL.

    iMac600: Really! Apple didnt make Rhapsody modem compatible.

    And heck knows what protocol it uses for ethernet, lol.


    wackymacs: Rhapsody does not have any networking capabilities.

    Macg4: and why would they do that? seems kinda stupid

    wackymacs: Rhapsody was never completed, it never even worked right.

    Macg4: yeah thats sad. they should have, but then again osx would have been delayed even more then

    iMac600: Rhapsody WAS completed. It was called "Mac OS X Server" after version 5.6.

    Macg4: true,forgot about that one
I'd rather us be slow and get the information correct rather than fast and give people bad info.

:roll:

So Wackymacs, are you telling us that Rhapsody has no networking capabilities? And how would you define never even worked right?
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brams



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 508
Location: Blackburn, England

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, thanks RacerX I see your point, quite litterally!

As you illustrated very well there, nothing comes with a gurantee when reading anything on the 'net.
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RacerX



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Twin Cities, MN

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brams wrote:
True, however I'm surprised just how much activity there is on the SGI forum Nekochan, that place is buzzing with posts.

I wish the people at SGI would have taken note of that... they've never been all that supportive of the hobbiest community even though that is where they could have rallied people around them early on in their troubles. Being able to point to an active community of users could have helped when selling systems.

In fact they actively discouraged having a community by coming down on Nekochan (about the logo) and shutting down the SGI Addict site. I'm not sure what they were thinking... but I've had the same feeling about most of the stuff they've done since around 1998.
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brams



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 508
Location: Blackburn, England

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: SGI Reply with quote

I agree the way SGI shun hobbyist users or at best turn a blind eye is a joke, I have no idea what it costs to subscribe to Suppotfolio but it must be a fortune and as a consquence of that my Octane is running an outdated Irix 6.5.26 I think.

The SGI ship is going to sink, not sure when but it's gonna sink, years of short sightedness and high prices have nailed the lid on the coffin, for me it's not a question of it it will happen just when it will happen. In fact when I read about SGI, it reminds my of the British motorcycle industry. I'll be sad to see them go for sure.

Not sure who was more of a bad CEO, Ed McCraken or John Sculley. Both had pricing structures that where ridiculous (1994 top end Indigo II graphics baord was about 55,000 USD) and letting all the engineers walk out the door to ATI/ArtX & nVidia wasn't the best idea either.
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Wackymacs
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RacerX, I was once misinformed a long time ago by a particular site (Its so long ago that I don't remember which one), and I also saw a movie capture from a computer running Rhapsody. It literally took it 10 seconds to popup the Apple menu. Anyway at least I know now that of course Rhapsody has networking features. Its actually meant to be a really neat OS, I should try it sometime. Has anyone managed to get it working in Parallels?
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RacerX



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Twin Cities, MN

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wackymacs wrote:
Has anyone managed to get it working in Parallels?

If you don't mind 640x480 grayscale... yes, it works.

Parallels emulated a VESA graphics card and there are no drivers for those cards in Rhapsody.

Quote:
and I also saw a movie capture from a computer running Rhapsody. It literally took it 10 seconds to popup the Apple menu.

Like NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP, Rhapsody doesn't play nicely while on emulated hardware.

But to give you a good comparison of the speed of Rhapsody's interface, I run Rhapsody 5.1 and OPENSTEP 4.2 on the same ThinkPad (80 MB of RAM, Pentium at 133 MHz with 256K of L2). What I've found is that the interface in Rhapsody is quite a bit faster than in OPENSTEP on the exact same hardware, plus it opens apps (like OmniWeb and Create) faster... which is part of the reason why I use Rhapsody so much more than OPENSTEP on that system.

Another example is running Rhapsody on different Mac hardware. Rhapsody was designed to be run on a PowerPC 604 processor with either 1 or 2 MB of VRAM. Apple made no interface changes to Rhapsody following Rhapsody 5.1 (the second developer release) which predates the G3 (which is why Rhapsody 5.1's kernel needs to be patched to run on G3 processors). What people started seeing towards the end of Rhapsody's life on the market (2000/2001) was that some elements of the interface were way to fast when run on G4 systems. During that period there were hacks online that helped people throttle back the interface speed a little.

My primary Rhapsody system is an 8600/300 (still using the original PowerPC 604eV at 300 MHz with 1 MB of L2). I have 416 MB of memory, with the primary display running off an ATI Rage 128 video card (pulled from a Blue & White) and the secondary display (and Blue Box) using the onboard video with 4 MB of VRAM. This system is quite fast... and I do mainly graphics work (web design and page layout) on it.

The only reason I can imagine an Apple Menu taking 10 seconds to open in Rhapsody would be if it was running in VirtualPC on a slow system and it was being recorded using something like Snapz Pro. On my ThinkPad I don't notice any delay when opening the Apple Menu... and that is a slow system for running Rhapsody (but it also has a real, supported, graphics card with 2 MB of VRAM).
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brams



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 508
Location: Blackburn, England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only ever had two quick plays with Rhapsody, one ages ago when OS X Server 1.0 came out (5.6?) on my 7300 and recently I was messing with it under Virtual PC iirc that had color 'cos I remember the red Apple logo on the login panel (DR2?). iirc there is a lot more software for PPC Rhapsody then x86, I'd love to play with it again but alas I have no PPC machines old enough to run it, my oldest PPC Mac is a Pismo and that is borderline having a New World rom which means Rhapsody is a no no. To that end, I might get a Wallstreet II or Lombard 400 for the task, both of these systems are OK for Rhapsody DR1 and 2 are they RacerX?

Cheers
MB
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RacerX



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Twin Cities, MN

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brams wrote:
I've only ever had two quick plays with Rhapsody, one ages ago when OS X Server 1.0 came out (5.6?) on my 7300 and recently I was messing with it under Virtual PC iirc that had color 'cos I remember the red Apple logo on the login panel (DR2?).

Mac OS X Server 1.0 is Rhapsody 5.3 (but can be upgraded to 5.5 with the Server 1.0.2 update which is a free download from Apple). But yes, the red Apple logo on the login panel would be DR2 (Rhapsody 5.1).

Quote:
iirc there is a lot more software for PPC Rhapsody then x86, I'd love to play with it again but alas I have no PPC machines old enough to run it, my oldest PPC Mac is a Pismo and that is borderline having a New World rom which means Rhapsody is a no no.

The last version of Rhapsody 5.6 (Mac OS X Server 1.2v3) can be installed on systems as new as the first generation eMacs (even though they were released almost a year after Rhapsody was discontinued) and some of the early PowerMac G4s (PCI Graphics, AGP Graphics, and Gigabit Ethernet models). The problem with the Pismos is that the architecture changed enough that Rhapsody couldn't support it and the people on the Rhapsody team who had written in support for earlier PowerBooks where all working on Mac OS X by the time Apple released the Pismo.

Oddly enough, the PowerBook Pismo was discontinued before Rhapsody. Both Rhapsody 5.6 (Mac OS X Server 1.2) and the Pismo line were released within a month of each other. Apple made one more update to Rhapsody 5.6 (Mac OS X Server 1.2v3) 9 months later and continued to sell Rhapsody for another 5 months after the Pismos were replaced with the first PowerBook G4s, but Apple never added support for the Pismo.

Quote:
To that end, I might get a Wallstreet II or Lombard 400 for the task, both of these systems are OK for Rhapsody DR1 and 2 are they RacerX?

Actually neither will work with the developer releases. You may be able to get Rhapsody DR2 on an original PowerBook G3 (Kanga), a PowerBook 3400c or even a PowerBook 2400c, but you'd be limited to an 800x600 display (which is pretty limiting). And Blue Box will not work on PowerPC 603e processors, so you couldn't use it on either the 3400c or 2400c.

For a Wallstreet you'd need Rhapsody 5.3 or later (Mac OS X Server 1.0 or later) and for a Lombard you'd most likely need Rhapsody 5.6 (Mac OS X Server 1.2 or 1.2v3)*.





* I've had reports of people getting Rhapsody 5.3 on Lombards, but I also heard that Rhapsody 5.6 was required. If you already own Rhapsody 5.3 and are looking for a PowerBook for it, you are safer buying a Wallstreet series system. If you have Rhapsody 5.6, you should be okay with a Lombard, but installation on the DVD models is tricky.
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