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Khashoggi



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Diagnostics Reply with quote

Trying to install the diagnostics on my Next Cube original 68030 with 64MB ram. Works otherwise.

I downloaded the files from here. Both 68030.tar and 68040.tar

I installed from 68030.tar
diagnostics
Onto the root of my hard drive and my netboot /tftpboot directory on my linux server

I also installed from 68040.tar
dvt040
Onto the root of my hard drive and my netboot /tftpboot directory

Neither will work from a SCSI drive boot
bsd()diagnostics
bsd()dvt040
bsd(0,0,0)diagnostics
bsd(0,0,0,)dvt040

Or Ethernet
ben()diagnostics
ben()dvt040


Error message for booting "diagnostics" from either scsi or ethernet:

commands section > 2048
load failed

Error message for booting "dvt040" from either scsi or ethernet:

Exception #11 (0x2c) at 0x4000000

I have tried various permissions and files are owned by root. There are no problems booting the standard mach kernel on either the scsi drive or ethernet.

I assume the files are bad??? Anyone have known working "diagnostics" or "dvt040" files? Is it even possible to use the "dvt040" on a 68030 machine?

Thanks. I need these files loaded on the cube so I can command the MO drives to seek throughout their range. I've read the manual on the diagnostics and there is some direct control over the MO drive that would be useful.
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andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To boot the diagnostics on 68030 you need to set a special boot parameter from the ROM monitor:

You can change the boot parameters with the the "p" option from within the ROM monitor. Then you'll need to set "boot extended diagnostics" to "yes" (y).

I think in this case the bsd command is not working, because "diagnostics" file name is too long.

"dvt040" does not work on a 68030 based NeXT Computer. I don't know what machine you tried on, but that might have caused the exception. On a 68040 machine it should work with the command you used.

I can confirm at least the "diagnostics" file is ok. I already used it. I also successfully used "dvt040", but i don't know if the file came from this site's archive.
(Both files used on the emualtor, not real hardware. But that should not make a difference.)
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Khashoggi



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. I will change the monitor flag and see if that gets diagnostics to work on my machine.
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Khashoggi



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same error on "diagnostics" -
commands section > 2048
Load failed

Setting extended diagnostics flag just adds "diagnostics" to your boot command on startup that is saved in the NVRAM.

Something strange is going on if the file is not corrupted. I decompressed the 68030.tar.gz file on the NeXT and copied the "diagnostics" file from the folder to the root of the hard drive.
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andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the moment i can't tell what is wrong here. Maybe it is some incompatibility with the executable format of "diagnostics" and the loader inside the boot block of your disk.

Obviously the boot loader does not accept the binary. What version of NeXTstep are you using? Do you know what version was used to build/format the disk?

Maybe the diagnostics utility has a special executable format, different from the kernel. This utility is quite old and 68030 only. So maybe support for the special format was dropped in later versions of the boot loader. But this is just a guess ...
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mikeboss



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 365
Location: berne, switzerland

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I (today) downloaded the diagnostics from here:
http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/Diagnostic_Utilities/68030.tar.gz

I then copied the file "diagnostics" to the root directory of an MO containing NeXTSTEP 1.0a.

reboot, entered the ROM Monitor (pressing the keys command and ~). then started the diagnostics with "bod diagnostics" -> works as expected. so the file is not corrupt.

I now will try if it's also working when started from the SCSI HDD.

UPDATE:
copied the file "diagnostics" into the root folder of the SCSI disk which has NeXTSTEP 2.2 on it , reboot. entered the ROM Monitor and successfully started with the command "bsd diagnostics".
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Khashoggi



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeboss wrote:
I (today) downloaded the diagnostics from here:
http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/Diagnostic_Utilities/68030.tar.gz

I then copied the file "diagnostics" to the root directory of an MO containing NeXTSTEP 1.0a.

reboot, entered the ROM Monitor (pressing the keys command and ~). then started the diagnostics with "bod diagnostics" -> works as expected. so the file is not corrupt.

I now will try if it's also working when started from the SCSI HDD.

UPDATE:
copied the file "diagnostics" into the root folder of the SCSI disk which has NeXTSTEP 2.2 on it , reboot. entered the ROM Monitor and successfully started with the command "bsd diagnostics".


Only difference here is my SCSI HDD has NeXTSTEP 3.3 on it. The OS shouldn't matter though as the diagnostics file is basically a replacement kernel right??

Other thing is I have 64MB in my cube, is that causing a problem. How much ram do you have?
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Khashoggi



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the exact output from entry to rom monitor right after power on. I have enabled verbose messages:

NeXT ROM Monitor 1.0 (v41)

CPU MC68030 25 Mhz, memory 100nS
Backplane slot #0
Ethernet address: (I have omitted this on purpose)
Memory size 64MB

NeXT>bsd diagnostics
boot sd(0,0,0)diagnostics
booting SCSI target 1, lun 0
blk0 boot: sd(diagnostics)
Booting from SCSI target 1 lun 0
commands section > 2048
load failed

blk0 boot:


------------------

It then waits at the "blk0 boot:" prompt.
I have tried this multiple times, same result.

Anyone know how to get diagnostics to work?
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andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khashoggi wrote:

Only difference here is my SCSI HDD has NeXTSTEP 3.3 on it. The OS shouldn't matter though as the diagnostics file is basically a replacement kernel right??


It is correct that the file is a kernel replacement. But every boot disk also contains a boot loader. When the disk is formated by (for example) builddisk the boot loader is copied from "/usr/standalone/boot" to the disks front, where also things like the disklabel are located.
The boot loader is called during the boot process (blk0 boot). Its job is to load the kernel or in this case the diagnostics utility.

The version of this boot loader depends on the version of NeXTstep you have been using when building the disk.

Do you have an empty external disk to do experiments on?
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Khashoggi



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andreas_g wrote:
Khashoggi wrote:

Only difference here is my SCSI HDD has NeXTSTEP 3.3 on it. The OS shouldn't matter though as the diagnostics file is basically a replacement kernel right??


It is correct that the file is a kernel replacement. But every boot disk also contains a boot loader. When the disk is formated by (for example) builddisk the boot loader is copied from "/usr/standalone/boot" to the disks front, where also things like the disklabel are located.
The boot loader is called during the boot process (blk0 boot). Its job is to load the kernel or in this case the diagnostics utility.

The version of this boot loader depends on the version of NeXTstep you have been using when building the disk.

Do you have an empty external disk to do experiments on?


I could rig up an external SCSI drive, but I also netboot this cube and even using the netboot with the diagnostics file I get the exact same error message. Under netboot the boot loader is basically in the NeXT rom.

What experiments do you suggest?

what does "commands section > 2048" mean? It almost seems like a buffer is overflowing as if the diagnostics file is corrupted or incompatible with my NeXT rom.

Since the netboot is controlled by the NeXT rom and if we assume the diagnostics file is not corrupt then the conclusion is that the diagnostic file is incompatible with the version of rom in my NeXT cube (NeXT ROM Monitor 1.0 (v41) ) ?
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mikeboss



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 365
Location: berne, switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my 68030 based cube has the exact same ROM. andreas might be right about the bootblock and/or version of NeXTSTEP. did you try any other release than 3.3? I only tried the diagnostics with NS 1.0a and 2.2.

EDIT:
I have 4x4MB SIMMs in the 68030 cube.
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andreas_g



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khashoggi wrote:

What experiments do you suggest?

what does "commands section > 2048" mean? It almost seems like a buffer is overflowing as if the diagnostics file is corrupted or incompatible with my NeXT rom.

Since the netboot is controlled by the NeXT rom and if we assume the diagnostics file is not corrupt then the conclusion is that the diagnostic file is incompatible with the version of rom in my NeXT cube (NeXT ROM Monitor 1.0 (v41) ) ?


I don't know the exact process of netbooting. But i'm sure it is no ROM incompatibility.

I think the error message refers to the structure of the executable file. Something might exceed the supported specifications.

I suggest one of these experiments:
If you have an older release of NeXTstep (<3), copy the diagnostics file onto the disk and try the diagnostic boot. (This presumes, that the disk was also build with an old version of NeXTstep.)
If you don't have an old version, replace the file /usr/standalone/boot on your current disk with an old version of the file (i can provide the file if you pm me your mail address). Then build a new disk, copy the diagnostics file onto it and try the diagnostic boot.
This needs to be done carefully and a backup of the "boot" file needs to be copied back afterwards to avoid later problems.
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Khashoggi



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeboss wrote:
my 68030 based cube has the exact same ROM. andreas might be right about the bootblock and/or version of NeXTSTEP. did you try any other release than 3.3? I only tried the diagnostics with NS 1.0a and 2.2.

EDIT:
I have 4x4MB SIMMs in the 68030 cube.


No I have only tried 3.3.

I will setup 2.2 and see if that cracks the case...

I will also check around to see if there is another diagnostics file floating around with a different checksum to see if there is a 3.3 specific version of it...
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Khashoggi



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andreas_g wrote:
Khashoggi wrote:

What experiments do you suggest?

what does "commands section > 2048" mean? It almost seems like a buffer is overflowing as if the diagnostics file is corrupted or incompatible with my NeXT rom.

Since the netboot is controlled by the NeXT rom and if we assume the diagnostics file is not corrupt then the conclusion is that the diagnostic file is incompatible with the version of rom in my NeXT cube (NeXT ROM Monitor 1.0 (v41) ) ?


I don't know the exact process of netbooting. But i'm sure it is no ROM incompatibility.

I think the error message refers to the structure of the executable file. Something might exceed the supported specifications.

I suggest one of these experiments:
If you have an older release of NeXTstep (<3), copy the diagnostics file onto the disk and try the diagnostic boot. (This presumes, that the disk was also build with an old version of NeXTstep.)
If you don't have an old version, replace the file /usr/standalone/boot on your current disk with an old version of the file (i can provide the file if you pm me your mail address). Then build a new disk, copy the diagnostics file onto it and try the diagnostic boot.
This needs to be done carefully and a backup of the "boot" file needs to be copied back afterwards to avoid later problems.


OK - I think the culprit is "boot"

The same "boot" file is on my SCSI HD of NeXTStep 3.3 as my netboot environment has in the tftpdirectory.

boot is the first file called when your SCSI booting or netbooting.

I will send you a PM with my email address and if you can send me your older "boot" file I can just copy it into my tftpboot directory and use that for netbooting the diagnostics kernel.

I hope this solves it. Thanks for the offer to send the 'boot' file!
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mikeboss



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 365
Location: berne, switzerland

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tested this and can confirm: diagnostics throw an error (commands section > 2048 - load failed) if one attempts to start it from a disk which has NeXTSTEP 3.3 installed.
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