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WANTED: images of old system releases
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mikeboss



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 365
Location: berne, switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

on Apple OS X:

dd if=/dev/imagefile.dd of=/dev/rdiskX
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Writing out the image on the Mac works -- it is creating the image file in the first place that has me stumped. I used dd on a NeXT turboslab, e.g. dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=image.dd.
But when this image is restored as per below onto an SD card used in conjunction with SD2SCI, I don't get a bootable image back.

But: I do get a bootable image when I use your image files.
So you are doing something right that I am doing wrong.
Perhaps one has to write out the whole disk via dd somehow - that is my guess, since sd0a is just 1 partition.
I would wager that you know how to do this.

A quick 2nd q: are those HD posted image snapshots, e.g. the 2.01G one that comes w/ Previous done from a cube NS OS or a turbo slab NS OS?
I guess a cube, since that is what seems to boot on the SD card when it's restored.

Thanks for your help!

mikeboss wrote:
on Apple OS X:

dd if=/dev/imagefile.dd of=/dev/rdiskX
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mikeboss



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 365
Location: berne, switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all images were created using a linux box before first boot after the installer of openstep/nextstep was completed.

I was using a cube but this doesn't matter at all. AFAIK there's no difference if the operating systems have been installed on a slab or a cube.

regards,
michael
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. That resolves some of my problems...but I'm not sure I understand it all. Is this the sequence?

1. Install NS on cube, say the disk partition at /dev/sd0a
2. [??] dd if=/dev/sd0a of=image.dd or some other if?

It's step 2 that I'm stuck on. Where was the dd cmd run to dump the image of the installed OS? On the cube, I assumed.

Re equivalence, I run into apparent device differences between cube and turbo setups. E.g., difft devices, like the optical drive are on the cube setup, but not the turbo. Trying to mount /dev/sd2 calls for insertion of an optical disk, the msg "Insert....". If you have some tip about how to mount any other scsi disk besides the boot disk (and they are recognized in the scsi chain at boot time), this would be helpful to know how to do. Thanks!

mikeboss wrote:
all images were created using a linux box before first boot after the installer of openstep/nextstep was completed.

I was using a cube but this doesn't matter at all. AFAIK there's no difference if the operating systems have been installed on a slab or a cube.

regards,
michael
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mikeboss



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 365
Location: berne, switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) install OS on cube
2) took the disk out of the cube
3) connected the harddrive to a linux box
4) ran the dd command (dump the device, NOT only a volume).
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks...that answers the q. Looks like I'll need an Adaptec scsi adapter for a linux box...

mikeboss wrote:
1) install OS on cube
2) took the disk out of the cube
3) connected the harddrive to a linux box
4) ran the dd command (dump the device, NOT only a volume).
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praetor242



Joined: 15 Sep 2016
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm acquiring a Color NeXTstation, and plan on getting an scsi2sd card for it, so I'm curious if the images you have for Openstep/Nextstep will work for that purpose and how do I go about acquiring them Very Happy
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bobo68



Joined: 03 Jun 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

praetor242 wrote:
I'm acquiring a Color NeXTstation, and plan on getting an scsi2sd card for it, so I'm curious if the images you have for Openstep/Nextstep will work for that purpose and how do I go about acquiring them Very Happy


Should work. Have a look at this thread: http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3737&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

You should probably set the "geometry" of the SCSI2SD the NeXT-way.
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paolo.bertolo



Joined: 24 Sep 2015
Posts: 57
Location: St Gallen, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

I must confess I'm lost and - again - need your help here…

I'm trying to recreate a MO disk for my Cube 030 with the "famous" NeXTStep1.0a release.
I thought it would be fun to do that on a rainy, lazy afternoon, but in reality it's turning into a little "nightmare".

What I have is, of course, a working Cube 030 with MO drive and a Station which I can connect to the internet (i.e. I can transfer files back and forth using FTP). A SCSI drive in the form of a SCSI2SD device.
In case I have a Mac. No Linux boxes, no Windows boxes whatsoever.

I've found some disk images around, the most "promising" one is a “.dd” file named "NS10a_1GB_V4.dd”, which is claimed here to be functioning, complete and probably cloned from a factory golden master.
But it's a 69.7 MB 7z file which becomes a whopping 967.6 MB once deflated, I guess it would never fit on a MO disk, right? So I’ve tried to restore it to a 2GB (or 1 GB as well, for what it matters) partition on a SCSI2SD drive. Idea was that in the end I would have booted the cube from that partition and eventually built a MO start up disk.
Final result is a disk that cannot be even read or mounted, I assume there’s some kind of low level mismatch between the data in the archive and the destination disk.

Some other images I’ve tried are “disk dump” (extension “.dump”) files, which I could restore. Final result was a disk with something on it, but I could not launch any of the programs because executables seem to be "damaged".

There are some other images around which I can’t use (or can I?) since are built for the emulator “Previous”.

Any advice on how to get the job done?

Thanks in advance and looking forward to your feedback!
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:01 pm    Post subject: re-creating MO disc from dd image Reply with quote

For starters, it would help to know:
1. What settings you used for the scsi2sd drive to write out the dd file: you might want to post the xml file that it uses, which you can write out
2. What sequence of terminal commands you used on the Mac to write to the sd card
3. After you place the scsi2sd card in the NeXT 030 and boot, the boot messages - does it boot all the way to the login screen?
I confess I have never tried that image, so it might be that it was a disk copy that did not include the boot blocks - or it might be flawed in some other way, as you say.
Was the plan to use the scsi2sd to init the MO and put the NeXT OS on it? I again confess I've never had the opportunity to experiment w/ an MO drive, so others here more knowledgeable would know what the right sequence of steps here would be.

paolo.bertolo wrote:
Hi All,

I must confess I'm lost and - again - need your help here…

I'm trying to recreate a MO disk for my Cube 030 with the "famous" NeXTStep1.0a release.
I thought it would be fun to do that on a rainy, lazy afternoon, but in reality it's turning into a little "nightmare".

What I have is, of course, a working Cube 030 with MO drive and a Station which I can connect to the internet (i.e. I can transfer files back and forth using FTP). A SCSI drive in the form of a SCSI2SD device.
In case I have a Mac. No Linux boxes, no Windows boxes whatsoever.

I've found some disk images around, the most "promising" one is a “.dd” file named "NS10a_1GB_V4.dd”, which is claimed here to be functioning, complete and probably cloned from a factory golden master.
But it's a 69.7 MB 7z file which becomes a whopping 967.6 MB once deflated, I guess it would never fit on a MO disk, right? So I’ve tried to restore it to a 2GB (or 1 GB as well, for what it matters) partition on a SCSI2SD drive. Idea was that in the end I would have booted the cube from that partition and eventually built a MO start up disk.
Final result is a disk that cannot be even read or mounted, I assume there’s some kind of low level mismatch between the data in the archive and the destination disk.

Some other images I’ve tried are “disk dump” (extension “.dump”) files, which I could restore. Final result was a disk with something on it, but I could not launch any of the programs because executables seem to be "damaged".

There are some other images around which I can’t use (or can I?) since are built for the emulator “Previous”.

Any advice on how to get the job done?

Thanks in advance and looking forward to your feedback!
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paolo.bertolo



Joined: 24 Sep 2015
Posts: 57
Location: St Gallen, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

here's an extract from the xml, for the other devices everything is repeating accordingly.
It works just fine.

Once the dd recovery is over (1.5 hrs later, closing message is showing that data has moved from if to of), the targeted disk cannot be mounted / read any longer.

The Console log is warning about BAD BLOCK, WRONG MAGIC NUMBER and stuff, that's why I suspect it can be something related to low level stuff...

Paolo

Quote:
<SCSI2SD>
<BoardConfig>
<unitAttention>false</unitAttention>
<parity>false</parity>
<!-- ********************************************************
Only set to true when using with a fast SCSI2 host
controller. This can cause problems with older/slower
hardware.
********************************************************* -->
<enableScsi2>false</enableScsi2>
<!-- ********************************************************
Setting to 'true' will result in increased performance at the
cost of lower noise immunity.
Only set to true when using short cables with only 1 or two
devices. This should remain off when using external SCSI1 DB25
cables.
********************************************************* -->
<disableGlitchFilter>false</disableGlitchFilter>
<enableCache>false</enableCache>
<enableDisconnect>false</enableDisconnect>
<!-- ********************************************************
Respond to very short duration selection attempts. This supports
non-standard hardware, but is generally safe to enable.
Required for Philips P2000C.
********************************************************* -->
<selLatch>false</selLatch>
<!-- ********************************************************
Convert luns to IDs. The unit must already be configured to respond
on the ID. Allows dual drives to be accessed from a
XEBEC S1410 SASI bridge.
eg. Configured for dual drives as IDs 0 and 1, but the XEBEC will
access the second disk as ID0, lun 1.
See ttp://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/xebec/104524C_S1410Man_Aug83.pdf
********************************************************* -->
<mapLunsToIds>false</mapLunsToIds>
</BoardConfig>
<SCSITarget id="1">
<enabled>true</enabled>

<!-- ********************************************************
Space separated list. Available options:
apple Returns Apple-specific mode pages
********************************************************* -->
<quirks></quirks>


<!-- ********************************************************
0x0 Fixed hard drive.
0x1 Removable drive.
0x2 Optical drive (ie. CD drive).
0x3 1.44MB Floppy Drive.
********************************************************* -->
<deviceType>0x0</deviceType>


<!-- ********************************************************
Device type modifier is usually 0x00. Only change this if your
OS requires some special value.

0x4C Data General Micropolis disk
********************************************************* -->
<deviceTypeModifier>0x0</deviceTypeModifier>


<!-- ********************************************************
SD card offset, as a sector number (always 512 bytes).
********************************************************* -->
<sdSectorStart>0</sdSectorStart>


<!-- ********************************************************
Drive geometry settings.
********************************************************* -->

<scsiSectors>4194304</scsiSectors>
<bytesPerSector>512</bytesPerSector>
<sectorsPerTrack>139</sectorsPerTrack>
<headsPerCylinder>4</headsPerCylinder>


<!-- ********************************************************
Drive identification information. The SCSI2SD doesn't
care what these are set to. Use these strings to trick a OS
thinking a specific hard drive model is attached.
********************************************************* -->

<!-- 8 character vendor string -->
<!-- For Apple HD SC Setup/Drive Setup, use ' SEAGATE' -->
<vendor>SEAGATE </vendor>

<!-- 16 character produce identifier -->
<!-- For Apple HD SC Setup/Drive Setup, use ' ST225N' -->
<prodId>ST1255ND </prodId>

<!-- 4 character product revision number -->
<!-- For Apple HD SC Setup/Drive Setup, use '1.0 ' -->
<revision>0009</revision>

<!-- 16 character serial number -->
<serial>ML64203MF6QLC </serial>

<!-- Custom mode pages, base64 encoded, up to 1024 bytes.-->
<modePages>

</modePages>

<!-- Custom inquiry VPD pages, base64 encoded, up to 1024 bytes.-->
<vpd>

</vpd>
</SCSITarget>
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paolo,
What was your goal? To get a working MO drive, right?
Yes, the bad magic number and such suggests that the dd doesn't have the boot loader at the front, or some other issue, so possibly it wasn't copied verbatim off of a working MO drive in full. The boot blocks are missing.
At the risk of speculation, since I've never initialized an MO, let alone for booting, what about the following alternative plan:

1. Get the 030 system running on the scsi2sd from a known working dd (lots of them out there)
2. Use that to build a bootable nextstep filesystem on the MO drive using the NeXT OS tools; I believe it will know enough about the MO geometry to set that up correctly to initialize it.
But I may have misunderstood what the goals are.
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bobo68



Joined: 03 Jun 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be able to use the "with Previous" archives. AFAIK they contain a regular disk image and the emulator etc.

Here you can find a NS 0.9 MO disk image: http://vetusware.com/download/NeXTSTEP%200.9/?id=10217. You should be able to dd it onto the MO on the Cube.

HTH
bobo68
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paolo.bertolo



Joined: 24 Sep 2015
Posts: 57
Location: St Gallen, Switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobo68 wrote:
You should be able to use the "with Previous" archives. AFAIK they contain a regular disk image and the emulator etc.

rcberwick wrote:
1. Get the 030 system running on the scsi2sd from a known working dd (lots of them out there)


First of all, thanks for the feedback.

@bobo68: you right, 7z archives "with Previous" come with the binary dump. Will try again over the next week-end to restore one of them.

@rcberwick/bobo68: problem is that so far what I could restore seems to be broken at some level, since binary data is there but, for example, applications are displayed with a generic icon with a question mark on it and when I try to launch them they either output "Cannot exec ... (not a valid program)" or "Bad executable".

I can only try restoring "dd" or "dump" archives to a SCSI2SD drive, since dd files are in any case quite big and I don't have a compatible SCSI drive at hand.
Could it be that there's some kind of mismatch between the format of the source disk and the virtual partition on the SCSI2SD device?
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree with bobo68, a binary archive might be the best shot.

I don't have a perfectly clear picture of what point you are starting from - perhaps you can clarify that. "Cannot exec" often implies that the binary was compiled on different hardware (perhaps Sparc, so non-Motorola 030/040).

With the scsi2sd card, you now have a scsi drive, of course - the one on the card.... I was assuming you were going to put the MO drive on the same scsi chain somewhere and build the MO drive from scratch that way. But again, I could be wrong about what you're trying to do.

@bobo68: you right, 7z archives "with Previous" come with the binary dump. Will try again over the next week-end to restore one of them.

@rcberwick/bobo68: problem is that so far what I could restore seems to be broken at some level, since binary data is there but, for example, applications are displayed with a generic icon with a question mark on it and when I try to launch them they either output "Cannot exec ... (not a valid program)" or "Bad executable".

I can only try restoring "dd" or "dump" archives to a SCSI2SD drive, since dd files are in any case quite big and I don't have a compatible SCSI drive at hand.
Could it be that there's some kind of mismatch between the format of the source disk and the virtual partition on the SCSI2SD device?[/quote]
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