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SCSI2SD Guidance - SOLVED
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mikeboss



Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 365
Location: berne, switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlateBlue wrote:
After successfully installing the operating system, I used dd to create an image which is stored on my Linux PC. If someone needs a copy, I might be available for best friend status.


there are dd images available of almost every system release.

here http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3406&start=17

and here https://winworldpc.com/product/nextstep
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SlateBlue



Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobo68 wrote:
SlateBlue wrote:
The only thing my Google search yielded was a link to download 3.3 User.

Do "nextstep iso download" at Google -> Boom (as Steve would have said)

SlateBlue wrote:
I have the original hard disk that came from this slab. It's a Quantum ProDrive and I'm thinking it has a 1988 or 1989 date on it. I can snap a photo of the label and upload it here. I'm not sure of its size.

I have a similar drive in my Color slab, also with the plastic front. They are not that unusual. The plastic was really meant to be the front panel when used in an open enclosing.

I'm 29 years old. The first computer I built used an IDE hard drive and ran Windows XP. Having never seen a hard drive with a plastic front panel and LED, I do indeed find it to be unusual. I was in diapers when most of you were hacking away on these machines. It goes without saying that I'm making new discoveries when working with vintage hardware. It's like taking a modern automotive technician, sitting him down at a workbench and having him rebuild a carburetor. It's not that he can't do it, he just never had to. So, all of the old parts and tech are new concepts to this gentleman. Give him the tools and little education, and he will succeed in his given task.

Thanks to all of you for sharing your knowledge. Do any of you think it may be wise to create a Sticky containing collective information about SCSI2SD config files and system images? I believe it would be a great reference for both skilled veterans and new fellas like myself.
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SlateBlue



Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeboss wrote:
SlateBlue wrote:
After successfully installing the operating system, I used dd to create an image which is stored on my Linux PC. If someone needs a copy, I might be available for best friend status.


there are dd images available of almost every system release.

here http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3406&start=17

and here https://winworldpc.com/product/nextstep

Thanks for sharing this. WinworldPC is where I found the NS3.3 User image. Since I have a one-track mind, I didn't really pay attention to the other download links.
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Rob Blessin Black Hole
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 597
Location: Ft. Collins, Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlateBlue wrote:
mikeboss wrote:
SlateBlue wrote:
After successfully installing the operating system, I used dd to create an image which is stored on my Linux PC. If someone needs a copy, I might be available for best friend status.


there are dd images available of almost every system release.

here http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3406&start=17

and here https://winworldpc.com/product/nextstep

Thanks for sharing this. WinworldPC is where I found the NS3.3 User image. Since I have a one-track mind, I didn't really pay attention to the other download links.


I ordered one and am looking forward to trying it , now just need to order the Micro sd .
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject: How to format SD card in Mac OS X? Reply with quote

I didn't quite understand this useful point:

bobo68 wrote:

Alternatively you can just dump an image of a bootable HD onto the SD card using you Mac (dd...) or PC.


I'd like to use dd to do exactly this job, I have a dd dumped image of my NeXT scsi drive - my question is: how does one then format an SD card in OS X so that it's then mountable by, say, diskutil in OS X, as say, /dev/rdisk2s1, and then written to by dd; unmounted, and then readable by black hardware?
I wondered whether the boot blocks would be copied, etc.
But first I need to be able to properly format and then mount it so it's visible by dd.

I also have an SCI2SD unit - I would try that next, to build a new bootable disk on the sd card that way, but dd seemed easiest.

(You can easily use dd over ssh to dd an entire NeXT scsi disk over the net, albeit slowly.)

Any tips appreciated. I'm sure someone has done this before, so sorry for any repetition.
Thanks.

bobo68 wrote:
You probably need to set the (virtual) geometry of the SCI2SD device. I'm sure the format process interrupts with a "cylinder group too large" error message, right? AFAIK NeXTStep tries to optimize the format based on the geometry of the drive but the defaults reported by SCSI2SD are so "out of line" that this fails.

I reported that to Michael McMaster (the inventor of SCSI2SD) and since V 4.3 you can set the geometry like this:

1) Use scsi2sd-util to load existing settings from the SCSI2SD.
2) Use the new scsi2sd-util "Save to File ..." option to save a config file
3) Open the config file, and change sectorsPerTrack to 139 and headsPerCylinder to 4
4) Use the new scsi2sd-util "Open file ..." option to open the modified config file
5) Save the settings to the SCSI2SD.

(I lazily copied this from an E-Mail from Michael)

Alternatively you can just dump an image of a bootable HD onto the SD card using you Mac (dd...) or PC.

HTH, bobo68
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bobo68



Joined: 03 Jun 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to format the SD card. dd does a block copy so the SD card gets the format of the image file (.iso, ...).

In fact you have to unmount the target SD drive so dd can write to it without interference. see http://www.thelinuxdaily.com/2010/01/writing-images-to-disk-on-mac-osx-with-dd/ or http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-to-create-disk-image-on-mac-os-x-with-dd-command/ for examples. The second one is meant to create an image from the disk so you just have to reverse "if" and "of" parameters in step 3.

The funny thing is that this kind of image copy worked for me with an SCSI2SD without setting a proper geometry.
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I think this is exactly correct, and was my understanding from using dd in other situations.

bobo68 wrote:
No need to format the SD card. dd does a block copy so the SD card gets the format of the image file (.iso, ...).

In fact you have to unmount the target SD drive so dd can write to it without interference.

The funny thing is that this kind of image copy worked for me with an SCSI2SD without setting a proper geometry.


That's what I'll try. I am guessing the disk geometry is scribbled onto the SD card blindly at the front which is why you don't have to set anything. The only possible thing that could go wrong is the offset start for the SD card, but it seems like the default works for you. The links you provide are spot-on, thanks. I'll tell you whether it works.

As the link says (slightly edited) you then just use:

sudo sh -c 'gunzip -c NeXT.disk.img.dd.gz | dd of=/dev/disk2

As noted before, since you can use ssh from the NeXT to a Mac or Linux/PC to image disks, if this works then aside from speech there seems to be no need for an intermediate external scsi box.

Thank you so much for these tips. I'll report back.
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bobo68



Joined: 03 Jun 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rcberwick wrote:
I am guessing the disk geometry is scribbled onto the SD card blindly at the front which is why you don't have to set anything. The only possible thing that could go wrong is the offset start for the SD card, but it seems like the default works for you. The links you provide are spot-on, thanks. I'll tell you whether it works.

SCSI2SD does not write any configuration info onto the SDs. It is stored on the SCSI2SD board itself. I hope this will change in the future because currently you need to match a SCSI2SD with an appropriate SD.

The disk geometry is important if you install the SCSI2SD directly in the NeXT computer and e.g. format an SD card there. NeXTStep calculated a bad cylinder group size in my case and refused to format the SD.
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bobo68



Joined: 03 Jun 2015
Posts: 194
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rcberwick wrote:
sudo sh -c 'gunzip -c NeXT.disk.img.dd.gz | dd of=/dev/disk2

As noted before, since you can use ssh from the NeXT to a Mac or Linux/PC to image disks, if this works then aside from speech there seems to be no need for an intermediate external scsi box.


Maybe I'm getting you wrong here but why don't you directly plug the SD card into your Mac (if it has a slot)? Then you can use dd on the Mac.
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to remember; sure you could do that all in one step. This was to illustrate archiving the NeXT disk image first by transferring it from a NeXT machine scsi disk to a Mac.
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone have a working .xml file for scsi2sd that properly sets up the second scsi id (id 1)?

Can the xml simply be a duplicate
(aside from the ID) of the disk geometry for the first ID?
(This is using an 8gb sd)

Then - one has to format it on the NeXT, makefs, etc., I would assume.

thanks for any tips
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
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Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I answered my own question - WTFM. The disk tools that NeXT and unix have suffice.

rcberwick wrote:
Does anyone have a working .xml file for scsi2sd that properly sets up the second scsi id (id 1)?

Can the xml simply be a duplicate
(aside from the ID) of the disk geometry for the first ID?
(This is using an 8gb sd)

Then - one has to format it on the NeXT, makefs, etc., I would assume.

thanks for any tips
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Rob Blessin Black Hole
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 597
Location: Ft. Collins, Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So in corresponding with Mike McMaster at code src , the new bios for the new version 6 Microsd cards is very close to working in NeXTstep. The advantage is they will be significantly faster and more reliable than the version 5 cards but will also sell at a premium because of the faster processor. I'm going to buy a few to help with the beta testing process should be fun. He mentioned someone is helping test on NeXTstep , the more the merrier I always say!
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rcberwick



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Scsi2sd v. 5 or 6; SD speed testing Reply with quote

This is good news. Has anyone figured out how to use partition #s with NeXT OS as opposed to just scsi IDs that would work w/ either the v. 5 or 6 cards? That way we could have quite capacious total file storage, even given limits of 2gb/partition. Perhaps the v. 6 addition of LUNs would do the trick?

On another point, in general testing of 3-4 difft vendor SD cards - my own experience has been that the newer premium priced UHS-I cards (ultra HD, rated for 4K cams, e.g., SanDisk Extreme) easily run 15-25x faster than the low-end cards, esp. wrt write speeds.

Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:
So in corresponding with Mike McMaster at code src , the new bios for the new version 6 Microsd cards is very close to working in NeXTstep. The advantage is they will be significantly faster and more reliable than the version 5 cards but will also sell at a premium because of the faster processor. I'm going to buy a few to help with the beta testing process should be fun. He mentioned someone is helping test on NeXTstep , the more the merrier I always say!
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LOOM



Joined: 14 Jan 2016
Posts: 10
Location: from an island far off the mainland coast

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had no problems installing NeXTSTEP nor OPENSTEP on my Sparcstation 5 with SCSI2SD and a 1gb partition/drive. My 20gb real scsi hdd on the other hand gave me some weird errors and refused to be installed on, as my other thread described.
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