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Any NeXT drivers writers out there?
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Rob Blessin Black Hole
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:02 am    Post subject: Any NeXT drivers writers out there? Reply with quote

Hello NeXT community: how difficult would it be to write a touch screen driver for NeXTSTep 3.3 and or Openstep 4.2 using the driver kit included in NeXTStep 3.3 developer? Anyone in the forum have experience writing drivers? Best regards Rob
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barcher174



Joined: 07 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression that they look to the OS like standard mice? They are just fixed resolution?
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calvinb



Joined: 19 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why? I'd argue for more useful drivers on non-VMware virtualization platforms, seeing as modern HW is incredibly unlikely to boot NS useably.
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Morgon



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Any NeXT drivers writers out there? Reply with quote

Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:
Hello NeXT community: how difficult would it be to write a touch screen driver for NeXTSTep 3.3 and or Openstep 4.2 using the driver kit included in NeXTStep 3.3 developer? Anyone in the forum have experience writing drivers? Best regards Rob


Hello Rob,

the biggest problem probably will be to get the data from the touchpad. Since the touchpad will probably provide absolute coordinates instead of relative movements as normal mice do, passing on these coordinates is no problem as the NeXT driver models supports absolute pointing devices although the whole part isn't documented very well.

My VMMouse is doing the same as I get absolute coordinates of the form (0 to 65535) from VMWare which I then scale to the display resolution and feed them to the upper levels of the driver hierarchy.

Morgon
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Morgon



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barcher174 wrote:
I was under the impression that they look to the OS like standard mice? They are just fixed resolution?


As written above standard mice are using relative coordinates while touchscreens use absolute coordinates. The NeXT driver model provides support for both modes though.

Morgon
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calvinb



Joined: 19 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC, NS already includes support for tablets like that anyways - obviously ancient ones.
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Rob Blessin Black Hole
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morgon wrote:
barcher174 wrote:
I was under the impression that they look to the OS like standard mice? They are just fixed resolution?


As written above standard mice are using relative coordinates while touchscreens use absolute coordinates. The NeXT driver model provides support for both modes though.

Morgon


Hello All: Thank you very much , believe it or not there are still some customers using NeXTSTEP 3.3 on Intel to run custom legacy applications . Yes it is quite a challenge to integrate systems as it is a hybrid of newer components and older components from the 1990's . They asked me if it was possible to write a new driver that would support touch screens I know there would not be huge demand but it would be neat to see if it is possible and it sounds like it would be.

They also had an interest in a NeXT USB driver .

I know there was a difference in NeXTSTEP and Openstep drivers , is the same driver kit used. I'm guessing the same kit is used to write both .

They may even be willing to pay something to have it done and then release it to public domain for us all to use.

How much work is involved in writing a driver , I'm guessing it may be following the instructions and plugging in variables , heck I'm willing to try or if anyone has an interest in trying it please let me know .
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pentium



Joined: 23 Jun 2006
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Location: Kamloops, BC

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

calvinb wrote:
IIRC, NS already includes support for tablets like that anyways - obviously ancient ones.

IS there an official list of these supported tablets somewhere? I got a few machines I could give it a try on in that case.
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Rob Blessin Black Hole
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Ft. Collins, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pentium wrote:
calvinb wrote:
IIRC, NS already includes support for tablets like that anyways - obviously ancient ones.

IS there an official list of these supported tablets somewhere? I got a few machines I could give it a try on in that case.
Hello: Sometimes it seems supernatural around here so turns out I now have a Wacom Artpad 2 Kt-405-A ADB Tablet whats weird is it had a post it note on it that says it works on Cubes and Slabs. I found the serial version on Ebay for $19.99 with the pen which I was missing .

It has an ADB splitter and I did not know original NeXT ADB hardware with the V74 Rom will support 3 devices as it registers all 3 during boot . As I don't have the pen yet I can't tell if it would automatically configure it to work but it does register the device.

I went ahead and clicked the install tablet .app under open step but in reading the help section, it is looking for you to connect a serial tablet to serial port b . So I'll try it when my EBay serial tablet arrives as well as adb one as it probably uses the same pen ...

So in theory this may be the best touch display to try that either the Openstep 4.2 old tablet driver may just work with possibly in previous or in a VM install or by integrating a hybrid native NeXTSTEP 3.3 or Openstep 4.2 Install?

http://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-displays/cintiq-27-qhd-touch

However because it has both absolute and relative support , it may be configurable using absolute mode ..... oh my head hurts lol.

At any rate It'll be fun to try to get the tablet working as I know they used these with Animo. Best regards Rob
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Morgon



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:

I know there was a difference in NeXTSTEP and Openstep drivers , is the same driver kit used. I'm guessing the same kit is used to write both .


Hmm, I never came across a driver kit for OpenStep. IIRC OS developer doesn't contains driver kit at all (it's a long time I had OS developer installed as I use NS developer only). All my drivers were developed with the NS 3.3 developer tools (and thus driver kit). We are using them in our office with OS 4.2 without any big problem since many years.

Morgon
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pentium



Joined: 23 Jun 2006
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Location: Kamloops, BC

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:
pentium wrote:
calvinb wrote:
IIRC, NS already includes support for tablets like that anyways - obviously ancient ones.

IS there an official list of these supported tablets somewhere? I got a few machines I could give it a try on in that case.
Hello: Sometimes it seems supernatural around here so turns out I now have a Wacom Artpad 2 Kt-405-A ADB Tablet whats weird is it had a post it note on it that says it works on Cubes and Slabs. I found the serial version on Ebay for $19.99 with the pen which I was missing .

It has an ADB splitter and I did not know original NeXT ADB hardware with the V74 Rom will support 3 devices as it registers all 3 during boot . As I don't have the pen yet I can't tell if it would automatically configure it to work but it does register the device.

I went ahead and clicked the install tablet .app under open step but in reading the help section, it is looking for you to connect a serial tablet to serial port b . So I'll try it when my EBay serial tablet arrives as well as adb one as it probably uses the same pen ...

So in theory this may be the best touch display to try that either the Openstep 4.2 old tablet driver may just work with possibly in previous or in a VM install or by integrating a hybrid native NeXTSTEP 3.3 or Openstep 4.2 Install?

http://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-displays/cintiq-27-qhd-touch

However because it has both absolute and relative support , it may be configurable using absolute mode ..... oh my head hurts lol.

At any rate It'll be fun to try to get the tablet working as I know they used these with Animo.


Oh, those types of tablets. I thought that was in reference to the "Penabled" tablet computers that companies like GRiD, IBM and Compaq were releasing an the early 90's.


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calvinb



Joined: 19 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morgon wrote:
Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:

I know there was a difference in NeXTSTEP and Openstep drivers , is the same driver kit used. I'm guessing the same kit is used to write both .


Hmm, I never came across a driver kit for OpenStep. IIRC OS developer doesn't contains driver kit at all (it's a long time I had OS developer installed as I use NS developer only). All my drivers were developed with the NS 3.3 developer tools (and thus driver kit). We are using them in our office with OS 4.2 without any big problem since many years.

Morgon


I remember seeing DriverKit (that is, the Obj-C driver API on 4.x) samples at the least.
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Rob Blessin Black Hole
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

calvinb wrote:
Morgon wrote:
Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:

I know there was a difference in NeXTSTEP and Openstep drivers , is the same driver kit used. I'm guessing the same kit is used to write both .


Hmm, I never came across a driver kit for OpenStep. IIRC OS developer doesn't contains driver kit at all (it's a long time I had OS developer installed as I use NS developer only). All my drivers were developed with the NS 3.3 developer tools (and thus driver kit). We are using them in our office with OS 4.2 without any big problem since many years.

Morgon


I remember seeing DriverKit (that is, the Obj-C driver API on 4.x) samples at the least.
The archives has an excellent description 312 pages of what it takes to write NeXT drivers! http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Docs/Developer/DriverKit/ , he he he it looks like we can probably run amuck modifying existing drivers or writing new drivers to support much newer hardware on Intel and potentially create paths to upgrading support for legacy NeXT hardware!
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Morgon



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Blessin Black Hole wrote:
The archives has an excellent description 312 pages of what it takes to write NeXT drivers! http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Docs/Developer/DriverKit/ , he he he it looks like we can probably run amuck modifying existing drivers or writing new drivers to support much newer hardware on Intel and potentially create paths to upgrading support for legacy NeXT hardware!


This documents are not as comprehensive as they look on the first view. While they describe the basic driver model and classes NS/OS use, they are lacking of documentation for many kernel classes you need to interface with e.g. event interface for keyboard and mouse drivers.

I had been fortunate enough to grab several parts of the Darwin sources when Apple made them public, including the sources of the kernel and DriverKit library. Without these files and a lot of reverse engineering of the existing drivers (esp. PS2Keyboard and PS2Mouse) and the kernel I could never have written my drivers.
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Morgon



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

calvinb wrote:

I remember seeing DriverKit (that is, the Obj-C driver API on 4.x) samples at the least.


I had a look at the OS4.2 developer CD today. You are correct there are driver kit examples an stuff included, but they don't differ from the versions in NS3.3 developer. Only thing I noticed is a different size of libDriver.a (NS=227 kB, OS=137 kB).
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