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Will SPARC IPX run NS or OS?
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brams



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 511
Location: Blackburn, England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:58 am    Post subject: Will SPARC IPX run NS or OS? Reply with quote

Will this run it?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUN-SPARCSTATION-IPX_W0QQitemZ320035984476QQihZ011QQcategoryZ179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Will it run in color and what about the price is it too much?

Thanks
brams
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winfried



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Erlangen/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think NS will run. AFAIK, the IPX is a sun4c platform and NS is only supported on sun4m, am I right?
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RacerX



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Twin Cities, MN

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That system is pretty similar to my SPARCclassic, and I was never able to get NEXTSTEP to install (the installation stops pretty early saying the hardware is not supported).

Still, I bet the keyboard/mouse and monitor would work with a supported SPARCstation... I plan on using my keyboard/mouse and monitor from my SPARCclassic with a supported SPARCstation (when I get the time) for such a set.
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winfried



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Erlangen/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, the sun keyboard/mouse interface hasn't changed between those systems, so type 3-5 keyboards will work, type 6 should also, but I don't know for sure (don't know, which type the new USB keyboards are). The 13w3 video connector is also the same for those machines, until the VGA connectors appeared with the ultras with IDE interface.
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brams



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 511
Location: Blackburn, England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the best bet then is still an SS20?

Shame it looked quite a cool little machine, are any of the "lunch box" SPARCS OK with OS or NS?
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blackcube



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Sherman, Texas USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brams wrote:
So the best bet then is still an SS20?

Shame it looked quite a cool little machine, are any of the "lunch box" SPARCS OK with OS or NS?


The best bet is a SS5 110mhz. The 70mhz versions are supported but slow and the cpu in the 170 is not so the 110 installs without a hitch and really flies compared to even a turbo slab.
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nextchef



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackcube wrote:
brams wrote:
So the best bet then is still an SS20?

Shame it looked quite a cool little machine, are any of the "lunch box" SPARCS OK with OS or NS?


The best bet is a SS5 110mhz. The 70mhz versions are supported but slow and the cpu in the 170 is not so the 110 installs without a hitch and really flies compared to even a turbo slab.


SS5-110 /w 24bit frame buffer. That is what I have sitting next to me right now. I thought the SS20's were supposed to be a better option, as they are a faster architecture than the SS5's.

Chef
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gborgns



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexchef,

Were you able to get 24-bit graphics running properly? If so, what were your settings?

I tried 24-bit and got mouse trails and artifacts. I had to drop the resolution down to 8 bits to get it to work on my SS5.
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nextchef



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
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Location: Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gborgns wrote:
Nexchef,

Were you able to get 24-bit graphics running properly? If so, what were your settings?

I tried 24-bit and got mouse trails and artifacts. I had to drop the resolution down to 8 bits to get it to work on my SS5.


I am not sure, how do I tell if it is in 24bit mode or not? I get an artifact every once in a while on the edge of a window, but no mouse trails or other stuff.

Chef
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crimsonRE



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, I've never had any problems at all running an S24 board in my SS5 (110MHz). No artifacts, no trails. AFAIK, there really should be no tweaking of settings required (re: the Display Devices section of /NextAdmin/Configure.app)

An SS20 running a 75 or 85MHz SuperSPARC-II MBus module is definitely faster than a 110MHz SS5 - the SS5 CPU has no L-II cache, while these MBus modules have a full meg.
Unfortunately, it may be kinda tough to find the boards/module for 24-bit color on these machines (CG14 VSIMM for SS20, S24 AFX board for SS5). I've been in the UNIX workstation game long enough that I was able to find a couple of each quite a while back, which makes NS 3.3 even more fun to use...

Cheers!
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nextchef



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crimsonRE wrote:
Hmmm, I've never had any problems at all running an S24 board in my SS5 (110MHz). No artifacts, no trails. AFAIK, there really should be no tweaking of settings required (re: the Display Devices section of /NextAdmin/Configure.app)

An SS20 running a 75 or 85MHz SuperSPARC-II MBus module is definitely faster than a 110MHz SS5 - the SS5 CPU has no L-II cache, while these MBus modules have a full meg.
Unfortunately, it may be kinda tough to find the boards/module for 24-bit color on these machines (CG14 VSIMM for SS20, S24 AFX board for SS5). I've been in the UNIX workstation game long enough that I was able to find a couple of each quite a while back, which makes NS 3.3 even more fun to use...

Cheers!


There is a seller on ebay who had a bunce of the s24 boards for the SS5 that he puts up from time to time. I picked up a couple for $3 each for my SS5's, as I was not sure if I had any in the storage unit with the rest of the Sparc stuff. The SS20 is the one with the built in frame buffer, so all you have to do is insert a VSIMM in the slot to enable it and get 24bit graphics, correct?

Chef
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gborgns



Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crimsonRE,

How much system memory did you have installed in your SS5 with the S24 board?

I am running the full 256MB and I think there maybe a memory overlap error occuring (i.e. system memory clobbering video memory).

Again, if I set it to 8 bit res. with the configure.app, all is fine. 24-bits no go. Could be the card I guess.

BTW, I picked up a couple of 85 MHz SuperSPARC-II Mbus modules for my SS20 recently (also have the CG14 VSIMM). I plan to give them a try, single processor with openstep and dual processor with Solaris 9.

I tried a pair of 180 MHz Ross processors in a SS20 running Solaris 9. Slow doesn't even begin to discribe the performance. Openstep does not work with Ross HyperSPARC processors.
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crimsonRE



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<The SS20 is the one with the built in frame buffer, so all you have to do is insert a VSIMM in the slot to enable it and get 24bit graphics, correct? >

No, actually the entire framebuffer is on the VSIMM. Here's a good description of the whole shebang (SX = CG14+memory ctrlr):
The SX graphics consists of two major parts:

(1) A dumb framebuffer sitting on the system memory-bus, including
MDI (analogue-display-interface) circuitry. This framebuffer
is called the CG14, and is implemented as a VSIMM.

(2) A dedicated integer-processor with direct access to system memory,
used to accelerate some 2-D graphics primitives and bitblts
between system memory and the CG14 framebuffer (which, on the
SS20, are the same thing from the memory-controllers point
of view). This is implemented as part of the system memory-
controller (aka EMC on the SS20, or SMC on the SS10SX).

Thus: SX = CG14 + EMC (SS20)
or: SX = CG14 + SMC (SS10SX)

The SX is designed for high performance 2D/3D graphics and imaging. It
accelerates common imaging functions such as pan, zoom, rotate, flip,
sharpen and blur and other convolutions. It also accelerates 2D/3D
wireframes and 3D solids. The SX graphics processor is part of the
memory controller and can thus copy data between the video RAM and main
memory at memory speeds typically in the region of 300-350MB/sec. It is
also a 24bit frame buffer. Also the SX does not take up any SBus
slots.

The SX has no built in Z buffer or geometry engine of any kind. It
sits on a faster memory bus than any other pre-UPA framebuffer, which
does help.

Supported in Solaris 2.3 - 2.9(?), certainly in 2.8; however, the hw
graphics features of the SX (which are part of the memory controller)
are utilized only in Solaris 2.5.1 and earlier.

Cheers!
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crimsonRE



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<How much system memory did you have installed in your SS5 with the S24 board?>

I have 160MB in my SS5. Yeah, could be the card. Perhaps try another - they seem to be
cheap when they pop up (infrequently) on eBay.

Yup, no NS or OS on SPARC with Ross CPUs.
Just as you will be trying, I run dual 85MHz SS-II's in the SS20 that has NS 3.3 on an
external drive and Sol 2.8 internally- quite nice.

My old main machine, an SS20SX with dual 75MHz, runs Sol 2.8 and is bearable, but now it
is a fileserver and firewall/NAT box and I use an Ultra60 with dual 450MHz US-II's as
my desktop (along with an Apple Mac PowerCube). The only Microsh*t I have around is an
SGI Visual Workstation 320 running NT4.0 (I've got 12 other running SGI machines for IRIX
fun).
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nextchef



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crimsonRE wrote:

Yup, no NS or OS on SPARC with Ross CPUs.
Just as you will be trying, I run dual 85MHz SS-II's in the SS20 that has NS 3.3 on an external drive and Sol 2.8 internally- quite nice.


NS/OS can only use one of the processors in a dual system, correct?

Chef
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