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nextchef
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 915
Location: Missouri, USA
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 Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: Use other "greyscale" monitors with mono systems? |
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Has anyone been able to use other greyscale monitors in place of the next ones on the mono systems. I am not talking about a color vga monitor, but a dedicated greyscale monitor. The reason I ask is that I have a couple of pixelink xds120 greyscale monitors in storage, and I know others like cornerstone created monitors like this. I cant find any specs for it on google, but does anyone think this might be something that could work?
Will post more info on monitors when I can dig around and find them.
Chef
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Chef
NeXTCube, NeXTStation mono, Color, & TurboColor. SGI O2-1600SW, Indigo2, VW320/540, Sparc 5-10-20, HP-712/80 |
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kenjay
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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I have been "studying" this subject for years.
NOTHING ELSE will work correctly  |
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blackcube
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Dallas, Texas USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kenjay wrote: | I have been "studying" this subject for years.
NOTHING ELSE will work correctly |
Same here. I have been considering looking for a source for the CRT tubes used in the N4000a monitors. I had sourced them several years ago but have misplaced the notes. It seems like it was a company in the northern US that priced them in single lots at around $85. As I recall it was a Toshiba tube. Maybe I should crack one open and see if I can find a part number for the tube.
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nextchef
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 915
Location: Missouri, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kenjay wrote: | I have been "studying" this subject for years.
NOTHING ELSE will work correctly |
I was afraid of something like that.
Was it someone in here who said he had got a sort of picture on a color crt by sending the gray signal to all the color pins on a vga connector. May have been somewhere else, as I have read quite a lot lately, and it all starts turning to mush in my head.
Chef
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Chef
NeXTCube, NeXTStation mono, Color, & TurboColor. SGI O2-1600SW, Indigo2, VW320/540, Sparc 5-10-20, HP-712/80 |
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blackcube
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Dallas, Texas USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| nextchef wrote: | | kenjay wrote: | I have been "studying" this subject for years.
NOTHING ELSE will work correctly |
I was afraid of something like that.
Was it someone in here who said he had got a sort of picture on a color crt by sending the gray signal to all the color pins on a vga connector. May have been somewhere else, as I have read quite a lot lately, and it all starts turning to mush in my head.
Chef |
That was mentioned on usenet and on the old forum but no one to my knowledge has got past the ghosting problem with a VGA monitor.
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nextchef
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 915
Location: Missouri, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcube wrote: | | nextchef wrote: | | kenjay wrote: | I have been "studying" this subject for years.
NOTHING ELSE will work correctly |
I was afraid of something like that.
Was it someone in here who said he had got a sort of picture on a color crt by sending the gray signal to all the color pins on a vga connector. May have been somewhere else, as I have read quite a lot lately, and it all starts turning to mush in my head.
Chef |
That was mentioned on usenet and on the old forum but no one to my knowledge has got past the ghosting problem with a VGA monitor. |
How bad is the ghosting? I guess it is too annoying to use, or people in here would be using it.
Chef
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Chef
NeXTCube, NeXTStation mono, Color, & TurboColor. SGI O2-1600SW, Indigo2, VW320/540, Sparc 5-10-20, HP-712/80 |
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blackcube
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Dallas, Texas USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| nextchef wrote: |
How bad is the ghosting? I guess it is too annoying to use, or people in here would be using it.
Chef |
I've never see it myself, just read about it. I have 4-5 good clear bright monitors so at the moment, it's not an issue with me. I have considered installing the kill switch from usenet to allow me to run my Cube 24/7 but conserve monitor life.
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brams
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 497
Location: Blackburn, England
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| blackcube wrote: | | That was mentioned on usenet and on the old forum but no one to my knowledge has got past the ghosting problem with a VGA monitor. |
I would guess that the ghosting problem is because the signal is coming down one line and then splitting into 3, thus if blue arrived at a different time than red and/or green then you would get ghosting. Considering how fast a monitor scans it would only need to be the smallest fraction of a second and you would get the problem. Think of it like FM multipath distortion. Maybe also red is poisoning (kind of like a feedback) green, and blue and vice versa as they are all connected together, perhaps using a few diodes would prevent signals feeding back into each other.
When I was on my exploits into trying to get my TFT working with NeXT I recall I read a monitor service manual, maybe a DEC one that said if you want to connect a mono monitor to a color computer you connect green only, reverse that and you connect mono out to green in on a colour monitor. Perhaps this also explains why we have SOG on not sync on red or blue?. I don't have mono so I can't test it but I'd think it would be worth experimenting. As far as I know so far people have tried to interface to color monitors. Should it not be a lot easier trying with a mono monitor?
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NeXTcube Turbo Dimension, NeXTstation Turbo Color, MP2100, Q840av, Q650, WS G4 500, Pismo G4 550, SGI Octane R12K MXE, BeBox 133.
Last edited by brams on Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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blackcube
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Dallas, Texas USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| brams wrote: | | blackcube wrote: | | That was mentioned on usenet and on the old forum but no one to my knowledge has got past the ghosting problem with a VGA monitor. |
I would guess that the ghosting problem is becuase 1 signal is coming one line and then joining into 3, thus if blue arrived at a different time than red and/or green then you would get ghosting. Considering how fast a monitor scans it would only need to be the smallest fraction of a second and you would get the problem. Think of it like FM multipath distortion. Maybe also red is poisoning (kind of like a feedback) green, and blue and vice versa as they are all connected together, perhaps using a few diodes would prevent signales feeding back into each other.
When I was on my exploits into trying to get my TFT working with NeXT I recall I read a monitor service manual maybe a DEC one that said if you want to connect a mono monitor to a color computer you connect green only, reverse that and you connect mono out to green in on a colour monitor. Perhaps this also explains why we have SOG on not sync on red or blue?. I don't have mono so I can't test it. But I'd think it would be worth experimenting. As far as I know so far people have tried to interface to color monitors. Should it not be a lot easier trying with a mono monitor. |
That makes a lot of sense to me. I should look for a monochrome VGa monitor to try it on.
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nextchef
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 915
Location: Missouri, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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From what I have found, one of the "features" of the greyscale monitors is that they usually have a higher dpi than a standard color vga monitor. I found some docs for the pixelink I have, and it touts that it is 120dpi high resolution. I also remember cornerstone touting the "high resolution" of their gs displays as well. I assume that the NeXT monitor would be similar? I do not know how monitors work in detail, but could it be that the color VGA monitor can not properly display/focus the higher res signal from the nextstation.
Chef
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Chef
NeXTCube, NeXTStation mono, Color, & TurboColor. SGI O2-1600SW, Indigo2, VW320/540, Sparc 5-10-20, HP-712/80 |
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nextchef
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 915
Location: Missouri, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| brams wrote: | | When I was on my exploits into trying to get my TFT working with NeXT I recall I read a monitor service manual, maybe a DEC one that said if you want to connect a mono monitor to a color computer you connect green only, reverse that and you connect mono out to green in on a colour monitor. Perhaps this also explains why we have SOG on not sync on red or blue?. I don't have mono so I can't test it but I'd think it would be worth experimenting. As far as I know so far people have tried to interface to color monitors. Should it not be a lot easier trying with a mono monitor? |
That would make the image all green then, right? Might be kind of funky to do it that way, sort of like an old mainframe terminal display. I would prefer all blue if I had the choice.
Chef
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Chef
NeXTCube, NeXTStation mono, Color, & TurboColor. SGI O2-1600SW, Indigo2, VW320/540, Sparc 5-10-20, HP-712/80 |
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brams
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 497
Location: Blackburn, England
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| nextchef wrote: | That would make the image all green then, right? Might be kind of funky to do it that way, sort of like an old mainframe terminal display. I would prefer all blue if I had the choice.
Chef |
If you connected the mono out to green I assume it might be I've assumed a lot in the past and been wrong, so for what it would take to try it which is not a lot, I'd be up for experimenting, especially today (Sunday) as I'm a bit bored and eBay usually beckons when I'm bored........ The other way around might work OK outputting green into a mono monitor but that not what is needed.
I'd get an old high res mono monitor and experiment with that, not sure what might be suitable, maybe a DEC one?
I personally feel that as all wires are connected to each other R G & B on the monitor to the mono signal that they are feeding back into each other, for what it would cost, get a handful of small diodes, put one on each wire and try it.
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nextime
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 27
Location: nextcity, ca
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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I saw a non NeXT display used with the Mono NeXT.
If I remember this was a prototye and never made it beyond that.
I do not have any additional information.
This was in the early 90's. |
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w2510a
Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:09 am Post subject: Non-Next Monitor on NextStation Mono |
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Hi all,
I have successfully connected a plain VGA multisync monitor (17 inches Olivetti brand with Sony CRT) to my NextStation Mono via BNC connectors. It works fine, no ghost images. As soon as I find time, I will provide a few pictures. Next step will be to connect a TFT display. I have an old 16-inch IBM display (IBM 9516-B23 TFT), which I already use for SUN (SparcStation 20), IBM (RS 6000/7011-44), SGI (Indy 4600, Indy 5000), DEC (VAXstation 4000-90) and Commodore (Amiga 2000) computers. It is not a high quality screen, viewing angle and brightness are quite limited. However, it does Sync-On-Green and works with virtually all machines that I could find so far.
Unfortunately, a problem remains - maybe somebody can help:
Originally, mouse and keyboard are connected to the Next monitor. As I do not have the Next monitor, I have no input devices for my NextStation Mono! On Color Stations this should not be a problem because input devices are connected via Soundbox anyway. Maybe I will try to connect a Soundbox with my Mono Station. Does anybody have an experience with that?
Best regards,
Günther |
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nextchef
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 915
Location: Missouri, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: |
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w2510a, what kind of adapter did you use? Something off the shelf, or that you had to fabricate yourself. More info please, and pics would be great.
Chef
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Chef
NeXTCube, NeXTStation mono, Color, & TurboColor. SGI O2-1600SW, Indigo2, VW320/540, Sparc 5-10-20, HP-712/80 |
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