Main Menu

NeXT Acquisition

Started by zaxel, October 25, 2023, 03:07:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

What made NeXT worth $427M when SJ had it acquired by APL in '96/'97?

NeXT as a software company was actually worth $427M
3 (18.8%)
Steve Jobs said it was worth this much, and company took him for his word; without doing much due dilligence
3 (18.8%)
The OS was actually extremely valuable, and it wasn't Steve Jobs just charming his way into a deal
7 (43.8%)
It was just because Steve Jobs, a celebrity, was attached to the deal and without a celebrity the company would have sold for a much smaller multiple
3 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 16

zaxel

would anyone be willing to assist with filling out this poll for my research paper?
thank you for your consideration,Zack

pTeK

I read somewhere (maybe on this forum?) that the reason why they could ask so much is because they had a healthy list of corporate customers who were using NeXT to develop rapid custom application solutions.

Webobjects and the tansition to the internet gave Next developers to build dynamic web pages for corporate customers which required to pull data from SQL based databases?

zaxel

Thanks for much for this amazing answer, do you happen to know if there is any articles that backs your point, just looking to find some evidence for my paper , thank you so much!

zombie

Apple had spent way more than that on its disaster OS Copland (along with IBM). Getting NeXTstep for only 400m was a relative bargain. It's the equivalent of finding a lemonade stand in hell. Apple would be dead without it. It's now the most valuable company in history.

pTeK

Quote from: zaxel on October 25, 2023, 06:24:34 PMThanks for much for this amazing answer, do you happen to know if there is any articles that backs your point, just looking to find some evidence for my paper , thank you so much!
No sorry, I don't have this so you can reference it in your paper. I think I may have read it in one of the webobjects threads? Or maybe I read it on a website on why Apple chose Next and it mentioned their coporate customer base?

Because Apple is a publicly traded company would those documents now be publicly accessible as this merger happened over 20 years ago?

When you look at early NeXT presentations they list their corporate customers, I guess it also helped convince the customers developers as it was based on BSD/Unix so if it compiled on BSD it should be able to get up and running on NeXT pretty quickly.

zombie

One thing you can look up is WebObjects was the first dynamic web engine. All the earliest online stores were made with WebObjects. Dell used WebObjects to get their first online store going.

zaxel

what exactly made nextstep better than other OS apple could have purchased?
I just cant find any evidence on any of this...
do you happen to have any concrete evidence to support your claim Zombie?
Id like to believe you but Im looking for some details that can support your argument

Rob Blessin Black Hole

Hello Zaxel : Have you ever actually used NeXTSTEP? What is your current Operating system Preference? What is your age please ? What level of education is your research paper targeted for is it for High School, College, Masters, PHD, other ?

 I am a guy that will really help you with all of this as I've been in the NeXT business since 1993:)   

To your point NeXTSTEP ran circles around the competition , you ask how?

.... well my personal experience , the very first time I sat down at a NeXT computer on February 9, 1993 coincidentally the same day NeXT shut down their hardware production line, I had just graduated from CSU here in Fort Collins, CO and was amazed.

I had a best of class COBOL programming 200 students in my hand and well a lot of stuff ran on COBOL at the time.
 It took thousands of hours to write or it seemed lol but it turned out incredible an indexing program for a video store.

Well the NeXT Developer Tools, me having 0 experience using them or Object Oriented Programming with project builder, interface builder allowed me to create a first draft App comparable to what I just did in Cobol taking over 6 month's in 60 minutes, wow.

 For papers at the time at CSU , remembering it was DOS and Windows 3.11 basically hell on Earth ,
I loved to push the envelope bling on papers.

If only I had a NeXT at CSU seriously , I would have had time to burn.

Comparrison you launched a word perfect file in Windows 3.11 then added a Lotus 123 spreadsheet and perhaps a graphic , it took hours of formatting to get it right, hoping it would not bomb the OS. 

On a NeXT launch work perfect, adobe illustrator and lotus Improv drag and drop a grab a corner to resize presto paper.

This NeXT has to crash right ,my first time on her,  I laughed as I had 25 apps going at once and it still worked WTF....

Windows Blue Screen of Death happened often with 1 app running on 3.11 with no explaination.

Why was NeXT stable ,preemptive multitasking and protected memory Free BSD, Berkeley Unix and a NeXTSTEP shell ,rock solid and stable some government customers had systems they never had to reboot in 7 years of running, yes 7 years 24/7...... 

Corporate Example of indexing and the brilliant use of objects..... it used to take a day and a half to turn on cell phones for MacCaw Wireless bought by ATT with NeXTSTEP tools 5 minutes.
That same NeXTSTEP Backbone ATT Wireless Used in all of there stores then made the first I phone release possible, fast years later .

Fortune 500 companies were simply not able to match the Software let alone hardware , we often silently turned the world on its head burning rubber into the future man and corporations with NeXTSTEP with mission critical custom cross platform software,  using NeXTSTEP tools kept it a secret because it gave them a competitive advantage .

NeXT Mail let you easily send email with Voice , Text, Graphics , Sound and Even Video starting in 19 friggin 88 lol .

The World Wide Web and 3d Gaming engine were developed on NeXT .

The Gold mine of information you seek is hiding in plane site right under your nose on our archives site here https://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/

a couple threads you will enjoy ....https://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/index.php?topic=3671.msg20906#msg20906   

and check out my youtube.com/robblessin site for hundreds of NeXT projects .

I have nothing but love and respect for you brothers and  sisters and will help you get an A+++ on your paper ,

I'm also the guy that sold NeXTSTEP academic bundles for NeXT and Apple nationwide so I have a love for education at heart :)

and finally an article in Forbes about a project I helped with for a customer Tim Berners Lee https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2012/08/10/steve-jobs-computer-cameos-at-the-london-olympics/?sh=2c41a7d9631e .

That A Plus I would suggest setting up and trying NeXTSTEP 3.3 on your modern computer using our homebrew free app Previous in the archive link , https://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/Previous68Kemulator/

with in NeXTSTEP you can set it up to run Mac OS 7.1 and Windows 3.11 and you will be able to judge for yourself perhaps even demo your research

via a YOUTUBE Video attachment broadcasting in your class room on your custom research webpage

in an Apples to Apples comparison of vintage operating systems on perhaps  a laptop and let your fellow students be the judge as well lol.

It may now be considered a form of torture what we went through paying $6 a hour for compuserve at one point to get online BBS at 300 baud dial up modem with rumor of 600 baud a coming oh and faxes being a thing.

Heck NeXT introduced the word to CD quality sound via Sony sound cards, laser disc's and the worlds first NeXTSTEP  software on cdrom support well it only took 2 system administrators to handle Chrysler Financials  2500 next systems, war stories, I have stories and time travel http://www.blackholeinc.com/about/page14.html . Peace and Best Regards Rob Blessin
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay  [email protected] http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community  since 2/9/93

pTeK

Quote from: zombie on October 26, 2023, 05:07:04 PMOne thing you can look up is WebObjects was the first dynamic web engine. All the earliest online stores were made with WebObjects. Dell used WebObjects to get their first online store going.
Being able to show a coporate CEO how webobjects can access their backend database list of products to show the customers and the ease of use for designing a dynamic page of each product to their customer would have been a game changer.

The hardest part would have been trying to convince the early adapters.

It was also multiplatform, Intel x86, Motorola 680x0, Sun Sparc, HP-RISC.

Quote from: zaxel on October 26, 2023, 07:41:41 PMwhat exactly made nextstep better than other OS apple could have purchased?
I just cant find any evidence on any of this...
do you happen to have any concrete evidence to support your claim Zombie?
Id like to believe you but Im looking for some details that can support your argument
It had preemptive multitasking because of BSD, (Amiga had it in 1985 as well). The presentation was very stylish, you look at NeXTSTEP 2.0 from the 80s then look at Windows 95. Look at photo 08 the scheme changer, it looks similar to NextStep Interface Builder with the Helvetica font and the 3D Rectangle buttons.

Now lets be realistic. NeXT was expensive not only the OS but the hardware as well. The fact that the machine was released in the late 80s with 8MB RAM tells you this. RAM was expensive, Atari released the 1040ST in 1985 with 1MB RAM for under $1000USD at the time.

NextSTep 3.3intel Required 8MB RAM minimum and a 486DX minimum CPU (With built in MMU, FPU) It did not support the 386. The 8MB of RAM only allowed a 4 colour GreyScale display but it still looks very polished. NeXTSTEP 3.3 cost $900USD in 95 and the Developer Kit cost $2500USD which was expensive compared to a Windows 95 PC at the time. Windows 95 on a 486DX-66 with 8MB RAM which my father had at the time crawled. I had to have a plane black background for speed (No desktop picture so redrawing would be faster) and other hacks.

Quote from: zaxel on October 26, 2023, 07:41:41 PMI just cant find any evidence on any of this...
do you happen to have any concrete evidence to support your claim Zombie?
Id like to believe you but Im looking for some details that can support your argument

This is the problem with conspiracy sites, they talk about Tesla super weapons but they never have any references so you know the site is full of $h!t

User @wizard is building a database of apps so he should be able to give you information on the apps that were available on NeXT.

Steve Jobs to Next would also be worth a fair bit because he would have had CEO connections with corporate CEOs, 3D Graphics and networking experience (Early cloud for storage for Toy Story movie, and Rendering 3D frames over multiple machines) with Pixar. And Networking with CEOs and being in Silicon Valley he would know what other industries are doing and how and where they are moving. Also having the first web browser available he and Next would be in a advantageous position to see where the technology is moving and if possible shape it to a certain direction.

zaxel

wow this is an incredible post Rob Blessin Black Hole, thank you , it is a paper for my masters in computer science ...
I have never actually used NeXTstep...my current OS is MacOS, Im 28 years old

Are you able to explain to me why Apple paid 427M$ exactly for NeXT-do you have any concrete evidence also to support this; is there a reason they viewed NeXT as being worth $427M? Why exactly was the OS so advanced compared to its competitors>? was the NeXTSTEP OS really so much better than the competitors?  Could it just partially have been that it was a Steve Jobs company and Jobs was a celebrity, also, How did Sun, the competitor to NeXT compare with NeXT with regards to their Operating System?; what made NeXTstep so advanced exactly and was it better than Suns OS?  im just trying to understand why Apple decided to pay $427M exactly-because my research informed me that Bud Tribble VP of software at NeXT left the company ...Im confused why Tribble would leave NeXT for Sun if the OS was so good? thank you very much for your willingness to help! Zack

mlroider

Quote from: zaxel on October 27, 2023, 05:47:38 PMwow this is an incredible post Rob Blessin Black Hole, thank you , it is a paper for my masters in computer science ...
I have never actually used NeXTstep...my current OS is MacOS, Im 28 years old

Are you able to explain to me why Apple paid 427M$ exactly for NeXT-do you have any concrete evidence also to support this; is there a reason they viewed NeXT as being worth $427M? Why exactly was the OS so advanced compared to its competitors>? was the NeXTSTEP OS really so much better than the competitors?  Could it just partially have been that it was a Steve Jobs company and Jobs was a celebrity, also, How did Sun, the competitor to NeXT compare with NeXT with regards to their Operating System?; what made NeXTstep so advanced exactly and was it better than Suns OS?  im just trying to understand why Apple decided to pay $427M exactly-because my research informed me that Bud Tribble VP of software at NeXT left the company ...Im confused why Tribble would leave NeXT for Sun if the OS was so good? thank you very much for your willingness to help! Zack

Ok so here are two things you should read/watch.

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/03/business/company-news-key-engineer-leaving-next-computer-for-sun.html

And

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGhfB-NICzg

The video is from late 1991 and shows what state of the art software development looked like on both platforms. This was 5 years before the acquisition by Apple and the engineering coming out of NeXT did not stop.

Besides NeXTSTEP/ Openstep a buzzword compliant OS
It ran in production on 4 different architectures 68K, i486, Sparc and HP-PA-RISC.
Then there was the Distributed Objects products PDO
Then there was WebObjects

At the time the only other real option for Apple was Be.  From what I understand the X-apple CEO of BE was asking way to much for his company and that was one of the reasons BE was not selected. While it did have very good OS tech I even had a BeBox for a while... I think their approach was just too different and had little support outside of their development community. But that is just my opinion.

I will try and see what else I can post to help explain the value of NeXT, but 400mil was a bargain

zaxel


mlroider

Quote from: zaxel on October 28, 2023, 01:19:05 PMthank you very much

Also if you take a look at this....
https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102724825

There were plans to take NeXT public. Looking over the numbers NeXT could have easily been worth more than 500 million if it went public.

Rob Blessin Black Hole

Quote from: zaxel on October 27, 2023, 05:47:38 PMwow this is an incredible post Rob Blessin Black Hole, thank you , it is a paper for my masters in computer science ...
I have never actually used NeXTstep...my current OS is MacOS, Im 28 years old

#### Reality , It would be difficult to write about on operating system or systems IMHO you have not used then compare it to competitive operating systems for the time,  and for a Master level Research Paper on NeXTSTEP, my advice just install it. I'm guessing you are savy with CS....
 
Do you happen to have mid to late 90's Dell Pentium , the reason I ask is you would be able to install NeXTSTEP 3.3 or Openstep 4.2 on it and also install potentially BE O/S, Windows NT and Linux or Solaris in separate partitions. Or using Modern hardware Install all of the above provided they are supported by Parallels, VMware or Virtual Box in emulation.
If you need advice an which model just ask :) How to video https://youtu.be/dj8Hyz-7arU?si=Z4hhSoIL9h2vNUKZ   with software you need https://winworldpc.com/product/nextstep/3x

#### I'll pitch you a few slow pitch softball meatballs to make short work of this  videos yay.

Are you able to explain to me why Apple paid 427M$ exactly for NeXT-do you have any concrete evidence also to support this; is there a reason they viewed NeXT as being worth $427M?

#######Here is why it was worth every penny:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhhFQ-3w5tE&t=2266s

#####
How about Steve Jobs explaining NeXTSTEP himself here https://youtu.be/rf5o5liZxnA?si=auboqeByOlVDl35B


 Why exactly was the OS so advanced compared to its competitors>? ###
Steve talks about his love for Microsoft lol https://youtu.be/bVu9-6rc3H8?si=HZnwRDtFjlrQj1VX

was the NeXTSTEP OS really so much better than the competitors?  ###
Steve Jobs Talking at MIT about exactly this https://youtu.be/Gk-9Fd2mEnI?si=b0c143kVkqDkmUAU

Could it just partially have been that it was a Steve Jobs company and Jobs was a celebrity, also,
#### Best of Steve Jobs as a bonus to the merger https://youtu.be/PYlqJ5fk-Zg?si=DwLOU8IMkWX4RyzD

 How did Sun, the competitor to NeXT compare with NeXT with regards to their Operating System?; ###
Here is exactly this NeXT Developer verse Sun Developer developing an application https://youtu.be/UGhfB-NICzg?si=9CRPa5Uj4HPZuUcC
NeXT ported to Sun by the way collaberating with Sun, the operating system and the developer tools


what made NeXTstep so advanced exactly and was it better than Suns OS?  im just trying to understand why Apple decided to pay $427M exactly-because my research informed me that Bud Tribble VP of software at NeXT left the company ...Im confused why Tribble would leave NeXT for Sun if the OS was so good? Bud Tribble was one incredible guy but most of the software engineers went to Appe and they brought back NeXT hardware engineers like Jon Rubenstein

You need to know Avie Tevanian ....
https://youtu.be/vwCdKU9uYnE?si=p49chAea60i14Abl

thank you very much for your willingness to help! Zack
Anytime, the Videos above will help tremendously, happy to help ,  guess I would probably slam dunk an Honorary Masters or PHD anywhere on the subject lol but I'm way to old now at age 60 !

I was supposed to do mentoring  , teaching here at CSU when working towards a Masters but I guess CSU lost interest in following up and they had me doing Basic Programming to start ,

I wanted to walk in Cave man attire with a sledge hammer and smash the laptop to start and say look at these NeXTSTEP developer tools instead the work is done fast,

OMG oh well I tried, anyway I took an incomplete in the calss and realized I was old for this shit and seriously my work projects at the time were a high profile prior art patent litigation case for Apple via Kenyon and Kenyon at 1 Broadway NY, NY 
and reverse engineering and upgrading the NeXTSTEP Intel ABA systems that controlled dialing in the optics for the Hubble,
The Intel boxes still work by the way and were used recently for the James Webb Telescope.

 Best Regards Rob Blessin   
In case you are wondering here is basic lol  oooog
INPUT "Enter your name: "; Name$
INPUT "Enter your address: "; Address$
INPUT "Enter your phone number: "; PhoneNumber$

PRINT "Hello, "; Name$
PRINT "You live at "; Address$
PRINT "Your phone number is "; PhoneNumber$

I should have brought in Steve as back up, he would have scoffed at the crappy projection system and basic , how easy is it.... Steve shows how. Of course it would have been whatever carnation hybrid of the Apple/ NeXT Developer tools we're at the time.

In NeXTSTEP it was simply drag and drop onto the palet and link well here is Steve https://youtu.be/dl0CbKYUFTY?si=ma6NPtzH49hSANwY
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay  [email protected] http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community  since 2/9/93