Full install guide?

Started by Atariangamer, October 18, 2011, 02:57:39 PM

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Atariangamer

I was here awhile back trying to make NEXTSTEP run on an old laptop I had, but I kinda gave up on it after I couldn't quite understand the driver issues I was running into, as well as being disappointed in application availability.

That was...a year and a half ago, I believe. Strange how my interests have changed since then.

I got another of the same type laptop (IBM ThinkPad 380ED) and want to try OPENSTEP on it. I've kinda resigned to the fact that I won't be doing much internet or anything spectacular with it, but between Windows, OPENSTEP, and OS/2...I'd like to try it.

Now, by the question in the title, I've yet to find a good, modern guide that doesn't immediately defect to "Just virtualize it". I know that my laptop is supported, and I'd like to run some stuff on it.

So, how do I go about installing this thing? I've got images of the Install and Developer CDs, as well as the images of all the floppy discs (boot, drivers, and beta drivers). I can burn the images and rawrite the floppies, but what then? How do I go about getting programs and stuff to it? (also, where's the best place to get some decent programs, like some office stuff and some games, maybe?)

Any help would be appreciated.

Nitro

Here are a couple of links to hopefully get you started.  RacerX has a nice visual install guide on his site which you can find here:

http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/next/software/install/ns_install.html

You can find a lot of software for NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP in our NeXTfiles archive, which you can find here:

http://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/
Nitro

ebann

You could also consider installing OpenSolaris. Pretty solid performer with many modern technology.
White Box running OPENSTEP 4.2
Dual Pentium III 550MHz | 320MB ECC SDRAM
Matrox Millenium II 8MB
SanDisk 2GB Compact Flash (CF-to-IDE)

Atariangamer

Okay, so I can see how to get the base 4.2, but what about the patches? as well as the other drivers and stuff (supposedly my laptop is fully supported, so I should be able to get sound, color, or all of that).

Also, I'm thinking of upgrading the hard drive. The internal one is 2.1GB, and the more I'm thinking on it, the more I'd like a little of everything. I've got an equally old 10GB drive I pulled from a PowerBook, and it looks like the heads and sectors are the same (which was an issue before), so it'd work as a drag and drop upgrade. But then how would one go about partitioning it? I know there's an issue past 4GB or something...

And looking at the OPENSTEP apps directory in the archive, there seems to be next to nothing currently useful for the OS...

bkmoore

Quoteso I can see how to get the base 4.2, but what about the patches?

The easiest way to setup a nextstep computer with the patches is to get networking going first, then download the drivers from another computer using a cross-over cable. The default install enables ftp, so you can ftp into your nextstep computer and push all the files. But since you have an older laptop, it begs to ask does your laptop have Ethernet? If it doesn't, then your best bet is to download all the drivers and patches and make a CD-ROM that OpenStep can mount.

QuoteBut then how would one go about partitioning it? I know there's an issue past 4GB or something...

I had a similar setup in 1995 to what you are proposing, only on a desktop. You probably should use OS/2 to partition the HDD and install OS/2 first. You can use the OS/2 boot manager with OpenStep. You can then install OpenStep on one of the partitions. I wouldn't recommend using more than 2 GB for the root partition, even though 4GB is supposedly supported. Some drivers seem to have problems with larger partitions. You can use separate partitions to mount for the /Users, /LocalApps, etc. if you need more space. There are plenty of posts here on how to do this. You need to modify the fstab file.

QuoteAnd looking at the OPENSTEP apps directory in the archive, there seems to be next to nothing currently useful for the OS...

Try looking in the NextStep directory, OpenStep can run NextStep apps. Most apps were compiled for NextStep and never ported to OpenStep. For starters, try downloading all the Omni apps and the Lighthouse apps. That should give you a useful baseline setup.

Have fun doing the setup and let us know how it turns out.

Nitro

As far as disk partitioning goes, a live Linux CD works well to partition IDE drives for OPENSTEP.  OPENSTEP's fdisk program can get confused when using large hard drives.  There are two types of partitions that you can set up for OPENSTEP/Intel, one uses BSD style "slices" only and the second type uses fdisk style partitions which you can then add BSD slices to.  With fdisk style partitions you can use the rest of the disk for dual-booting another operating system.  The maximum fdisk style partition that the OPENSTEP EIDE driver will recognize is 8063 MB, which is ~8 GB.  You can then slice that up into BSD partitions of up 4 GB in size.  As bkmoore pointed out, 4 GB boot partitions get kind of flakey, so it's best to limit the boot partition to 2 GB in size.  4 GB partitions work fine as data-only partitions.  One other quirk to mention is that OPENSTEP/Intel boot drives must have 512 byte sectors, which many drives use.

You can use the Linux fdisk program from a bootable live CD to create a partition 8063 MB in size.  Once you have a partition created you will need to set the partition system ID to "a7" which designates it as a NEXTSTEP partition.  These are the commands to run from a Linux terminal window to set up the drive, assuming your target hard drive is device sda (back up your data first!).

sudo fdisk /dev/sda
Type "m" for help (without the quotes)
Delete any existing partitions
Type "n" to add a new partition
Choose primary partition and set the partition number to 1
Choose the default starting sector
Type +8063M for the partition size
Type "t" to change the partition's system id
Type "a7" as the hex code
Type "w" to write the partition table to disk and exit

Once this is done the drive is ready to install OPENSTEP.  I hope that helps to get you up and running.  :)
Nitro

pTeK

Quote from: Nitro on October 23, 2011, 11:36:16 AMAs far as disk partitioning goes, a live Linux CD works well to partition IDE drives for OPENSTEP.
Good to read as I don't have a floppy disk for the machine that I want to install OPENSTEP on.

Quote from: Nitro on October 23, 2011, 11:36:16 AMThe maximum fdisk style partition that the OPENSTEP EIDE driver will recognize is 8063 MB, which is ~8 GB.  You can then slice that up into BSD partitions of up 4 GB in size.  As bkmoore pointed out, 4 GB boot partitions get kind of flakey, so it's best to limit the boot partition to 2 GB in size.  4 GB partitions work fine as data-only partitions.  One other quirk to mention is that OPENSTEP/Intel boot drives must have 512 byte sectors, which many drives use.

@Nitro, Is this only the first 8GB? The machine I want to install OPENSTEP on, the first 8GB has my Windows XP partition and I still want that partition as it has Mame and my old student version of MSOffice and MatLab from 2003

Or Can I go:

0-20GB Boot: WindowsXP
20GB-28GB: OPENSTEP Partitions
28GB-END: NetBSD

Also these 4GB data partitions you mentioned, can they be:
2GB Boot:
4GB Data 1:
4GB Data 2:
4GB Data 3:
or can they only total up to 8GB Max.

Thanks.

Nitro

I'm not an expert on this, but I believe that the OPENSTEP EIDE driver can only see the first ~8063 MB of the disk. So if there's a 2 GB Windows partition at the beginning of the disk, then that leaves ~6 GB remaining for OPENSTEP partitions. Also, the disk utilities on the OPENSTEP CD have a problem installing onto partitions that are at a large offset from the beginning of the disk. That issue was fixed in a later patch I believe. One way around this is to use a second disk for OPENSTEP if the computer supports more than one drive. I created a triple-boot setup with two drives in this thread as an example. I also created a dual-boot setup with partitioning details in this thread. Hopefully there's some information in those threads that can help you.

One other thing to mention is that I had some misconceptions in the past about DOS partitions vs pure BSD style slices, so older posts of mine on the subject may not be spot-on.
Nitro

pTeK

Quote from: Nitro on June 22, 2023, 11:42:13 AMI'm not an expert on this, but I believe that the OPENSTEP EIDE driver can only see the first ~8063 MB of the disk. So if there's a 2 GB Windows partition at the beginning of the disk, then that leaves ~6 GB remaining for OPENSTEP partitions. Also, the disk utilities on the OPENSTEP CD have a problem installing onto partitions that are at a large offset from the beginning of the disk. That issue was fixed in a later patch I believe. One way around this is to use a second disk for OPENSTEP if the computer supports more than one drive. I created a triple-boot setup with two drives in this thread as an example. I also created a dual-boot setup with partitioning details in this thread. Hopefully there's some information in those threads that can help you.

Yes you are correct as mentioned in the readme with Patch 4
Issues addressed in OPENSTEP 4.2 for Mach Patch 2

Couldn't install OPENSTEP on partitions beginning after 4GB (On page 15/32)
Apple reference #2265513

Problem: The 'disk' command was not able to initialize an OPENSTEP for Mach partition beginning at a large offset on the drive, and would not correctly partition a large fdisk slice on EIDE drives.

Resolution: The 'disk' command can now initialize partitions at any offset.

'fdisk' disk cylinder limit (On page 18/32 same book)
Apple reference #2305698

Problem: With some BIOS versions, the 'fdisk' command was unable to process disks with more than 2^10 cylinders.

Resolution: The limit has been increased to 2^16 cylinders.

This is interesting because:
512(bytes) × 63(sectors) x 256(heads) × 1024(cylinders) = 8,064 MiB (8GB)
512(bytes) × 63(sectors) x 256(heads) × 65536(cylinders) = 516,096 Mib (512GB)
Can some one double check the 512GB please

'mkfs' failed with write error (On page 17/32 same book)
Apple reference #2284310

Problem: While building a new OPENSTEP for Mach filesystem, the 'mkfs' command failed with a write error for some combinations of disk geometry and filesystem options.

Resolution: The 'mkfs' command will now lay out these filesystems correctly.


Quote from: Nitro on June 22, 2023, 11:42:13 AMOne other thing to mention is that I had some misconceptions in the past about DOS partitions vs pure BSD style slices, so older posts of mine on the subject may not be spot-on.
I'm just trying to find information so that I can get OpenStep up and running so I've gone through all the old threads in the whitebox section to get hints and tips :) So yeah that is why I asked for more information on this thread :), Expect more stupid questions  ::)

Will try some more this weekend :)

Apple2guy

peek Don't make a partition larger than 4096Mb if you do there will be data corruption. It will wrap around after 4096mb. So you can make a 8063mb partition and install to it but soon after you write over the 4gb barrier it will wrap around and write to the first 4 gb of the partition.
Core i7 2600 | Adaptec 2940UW Pro | SMC 9332 Fast Ethernet 10/100 Adapter | Sound Blaster 16 PCI | Nvidia Geforce 1050TI | Openstep 4.2