A Deep Dive into Id Software's DoomEd in-house Level Editor running in NeXTSTEP

Started by Nitro, April 11, 2023, 01:08:16 PM

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Rob Blessin Black Hole

Win95 machine to run the software on at the moment but I supposed I could partition my wife's old computer and do it there.
Wow it is just this easy , make doom levels in 5 minutes ....


The Doom on my NeXT computer probably has to have the Doom.wad file to run.  Still unsure how I'll get the Doom editor on the machine but that's why I need to block off time to do this.  Initially it will be slow but once the grey cells get lubricated I'm sure it will start coming back to me.
[/quote]
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay  [email protected] http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community  since 2/9/93

KarateEd

Ok, so you can see from this (did you watch it?) that it's dead easy to create a doom wad file using this editor.  I could have used this back in the day, probably saved hundreds of hours of creating those couple of levels with it.

Thanks for the link Rob and now I will start considering something appropriate for the 30th anniversary of Doom and also something NeXTish.....if that's a word.

For those out there in NeXT land that are interested in Doom level making, this is the editor and game engine that you want.  I'm slightly familiar with GZdoom through the use of ZDoom when it first came out.  It created much better graphics for the original game (much less pixelated) and ran really smooth.  Give it a try.....maybe we could collaborate on some levels to see if we could create a truly impressive 32 set themed grouping.

Anything is possible with this setup.

KarateEd

#17
I did a very small cheap and dirty map using this editor.  First time I've used it so there is a lot to learn and this is very simplistic, the kind of map a person starts with to get familiar with his tools.  That's all this is and to give you an example of what it might look like to start.  It will take a while to figure out the things I used to know but it's already starting to percolate to the surface so that's good.  This is going to be fun.

Since the file was too large to put on here I've uploaded it to my YouTube channel which is very sloppy but it works.

https://youtu.be/GJgR2pKr-Eo

This is the finished (I hope) wad file.

Not my greatest work but I bet most of you die at least once before you get through it.  There are no tricks, it's just to show how the editor looks with a very simple map and with me not yet knowing the editor other than at it's very basic level.

Nitro

I added the .wad file extension to the list of allowed file extensions for attachments, so you should be able to attach .wad files now. Please let me know if there are any issues with this.
Nitro

KarateEd

A thanks for that, it'll save some time and nonsense.

Here's a link of a short video on making teleports that work well and look nice....

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=How+do+you+link+teleports+in+Ultimate+Doom+Builder#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:40498ae7,vid:XG93G9r4itg,st:0

Here's the location of all his Doom editing files which actually give enough information for us to start designing, well after getting a little more familiar with the editor but it appears to be so much easier than bitd......I find he's very clear in his tutorials.

https://www.youtube.com/@thedemonturtle9443/videos


Rob Blessin Black Hole

The timelines for Doom and my NeXT experience are getting really cosmically weird for me lol as if I were not crazy enough ...... this page has the earliest versions of DOOM , Alpha 0_2.zip released February 4th, 1993 , I started selling NeXT stuff February 9th, 1993 lol coincidentally the same day NeXT shutdown the hardware production line spooky action at a distance.  Ed I'll try it !

https://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/info/shareware.php

Which plays perfectly into the NeXT  themed story lol the NeXT hardware employee's never saw it coming Doomsday February 9 1993 .  The chosen golden BOZO Rob Blessin was some how hired on this very day to sell NeXT products. Whilst a fledgling company ID software was creating the worlds first 3d gaming engine using NeXT hardware to create DOOM .

Nearly 30 years have passed and Rob realizes  it must have been a message as he had no clue until now the timeline merger he has been .  Fortunately he has remained steadfast in his duties carrying the NeXT torch all these years , preserving the NeXT hardware for the ages and now the creation coming the tribute to Steve Jobs , the NeXT computer addition 30 'th anniversary of Doom and NeXT  .

I think scene one ought to be getting hired and the interview process with Steve Jobs asking questions with the last being have you tried LSD lol  then stuff gets cray from there as your responses determine what department of NeXT you start with...... now it gets interesting as we need a model of the NeXT offices incoming ,some may actually wind up at the very first Palo Alto office , others at redwood city.... answering the series of questions determines your destiny some wind up in the eye of the storm dropped into the middle of 400 NeXT engineers finding out they are getting laid off now by you lol OMG . 

NeXT is planning something secretive the software port to Intel, you survive, this was my first day seriously at Alembic so this is how I saved my ass , here in lies an opportunity , I chimed in as wide spread panic ensued .  Angry beasts indeed , banks of NeXT hardware angry Steve lol , you are an engineer dodging the pink slip meanies, office back stabbers, credit takers for your work , bean counters , etc duck and cover ,  failed prototype and software bug room ought to be  epic   ..... back to how I saved my ass , some customers are going to be panicking wanting to dump NeXT hardware , so yep you become a NeXT wheeler dealer to get through another level for sure and others panicking because they have standing orders for NeXT hardware that is now obsolete  ....  a quest of sorts to find NeXT hardware for the USAF and 3 letter agencies, yep this really happened lol and they actually convinced NeXT that summer to do one more run of hardware on the down low.  so yes , their will have to be a secret agent level lol this is going to be bad ass .

Then cometh the NeXTSTEP/Openstep Intel Boxes and the Battle against Microsoft and Sun ........ OMG the BLUE SCREEN of DEATH room battling the Microsoft freeze rays , a house of horror filled with DOS, Windows 3.11 , Windows NT, cryptic messages and Microsoft Dev tools ....    You must battle these beasts and convert your bank of PC's to NeXTSTEP , tame SUN and HP as well even IBM rears it ugly head for awhile , time rolls on what is this a battle for the World Wide Web muah  , fighting the search engines and age restricted websites remember the pornado oh really bad timing in the game of course, junior what in the sam hell are you doing  lol  .com battles (buying the right ones) oh crap it is Apple failing badly and now the copland developers , the newtons , tams , NeXT prevails and saves the giant Apple , Steve is back ....... the bondi blues and candy imacs , land of the pods, pads and smart phones , battling androids lol ought to be an amazing game ...... oh no battling the internet shoppers and auction snipers really..... interactive news blurbs ,video clues as to what is NeXT am I on to something or what Doom NeXT 30 year legacy :)   

What is this , I'm telling you if we can actually import spam messages into a section , you know those ones and pick weapons and do battle
wiping out the spam caught in the spam filter , how fun would that be as it is truly a daily battle and some spam deserves more than a simple delete , I want the full disposal of doom weapons to unleash on spam , especially the messages promising stuff, phishing scams and the ultimate questioning the length of my manhood and the unsubscribe that doesn't work....  I'm pretty sure if a gaming room existed where you could send it your deleted spam for disposal by hundreds, no thousands of spam fighting warriors, gaining points for stuff and experience for avatar bling ,helping you destroy it would be huge  ....... we're going to need more servers lol

Perhaps the sinister, Battle of the Ex's virtual showdown oh it is on like Donkey Kong, as well as with or lol against current significant others.....   siblings , relatives etc.... it should be fun but who knows  ...

Trivia Battler Section  Gauntlet Puzzle solvers .... 

And finally low and behold the epic battle of the dating app people lol  beware  the generation Z student phone Zombies with attitude as they are tic toc and instagram influences whilst we old timers are on the uncool keepers of the facebook lol  which leads me to the final battle with people like my parents in their late 80's coming at you with tech from Radio Shack and Sears ,dial phones, vinyl and symphony records

The timeline will make it really funny as you advance through the years including argumentative subjects like music, sports, politics, religion and entertainment, I can only imagine what is going to go on in those rooms arrrrrrg let's go , finally a fun palace to take out your frustrations in the comment sections with virtual doom response lol .
It'll be huge especially if it is easy for people to add or create  there own little gaming section :)  Obviously rate and like emoji sections with comments , it may just snowball , ideally I would like it to be free what would I do with several billion dollars lol but if it winds up hitting big ,  I'll take it and put it to good use . There is always that last battle and a choice taming the Flying Unicorn in the land of heaven , peace and love and Universal world peace or some may choose hell to whoop up on some demons ,get some .
Who's with me? Build it and they will come.   Finally an encore battling the Billionaires  which really ought to be fun because they are huge , when you make it all the way there for them to keep in the game battling the growing number of players , they will be able to create really fun areas and get a real hoot out of it, hiding prizes , donations sections to worthy causes of their choice with the idea that a lot of philanthropy  comes out of it  ,scholarships, internships actual jobs etc , think Mr. Beast , Bezo's , Zuck, Gates, Cook, Ellison, Oprah and Musk etc it is global after all they are going down lol  or will they with stand the gauntlet as their areas will also be ranked and rated by the players including themselves .

Apple, Google and AI and of course you and me probably makes a lot of and this happen quick  ....... they re always looking for the NeXT big thing may be, just may be it is us that saves the world.

Look at this terrain builder for doom https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=232&t=70938

It doesn't happen over night You kind of walk into a city like Second life or Simms eventually and choose what you want to do like the movie  Ready Player One I suppose.   Finally what is this  :) the school and homework section , hook line and sinker.

The Editors and Grammar and Punctuater battle clock watchers woop woop battlestations lol ha.

Almost forgot the pet section as my cat will probably want to play as well chirp chirp.

Celebrities will get to do battle against the paparazzi's , huge I tell you:)
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay  [email protected] http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community  since 2/9/93

KarateEd

Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on November 28, 2023, 12:43:09 AMThe timelines for Doom and my NeXT experience are getting really cosmically weird for me lol as if I were not crazy enough ...... this page has the earliest versions of DOOM , Alpha 0_2.zip released February 4th, 1993 , I started selling NeXT stuff February 9th, 1993 lol coincidentally the same day NeXT shutdown the hardware production line spooky action at a distance.  Ed I'll try it !

Look at this terrain builder for doom https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=232&t=70938

Yes, I think you'll have some fun with this Rob.  Check out those videos first and save yourself a lot of time.  Go through them with your editor open so you can follow along and you'll see just how easy it is.  You'll have to pause his video because you won't be as fast as he is at first but I'm sure you'll do fine.

I would start with the basic room building one first, they aren't in order so then I would do the outdoor one next and doesn't matter in which order you do the ones after that.

That terrain editor is crazy man.  Wow, haven't seen anything for Doom before this like that.  I will definitely check it out....well, you've put a lot on my plate now my friend.

KarateEd

That's a crazy long description of what you would like and I think that's a monumental task as written.  It would require someone that can alter the creatures within Doom through scripting (that's not me).  It would also require dreaming up some way to 'hold conversations' within Doom and I'm really not sure how that would be done but triggers could probably be used to make that happen.....that again would require coding within the game and that's not my area of ability, well, at least not at this time.  That would require a lot of effort for me there when I need to learn this editor and make things function smoothly and gracefully throughout any level created.

I'm not saying that I couldn't learn it but it certainly won't be 'instant gratification'.  I think there are others on here that would be far more capable in the coding aspect to create what we would be looking for to achieve 'your dream levels' here Rob.  I can see this being a 32 level group of levels as in the commercial releases of Doom.  Also, there's no money in creating these unless you go on to become a star within an organization of folks that their levels are so good people are willing to pay for them but I also think there are copywrite issues, at least the purchase of a license to use the Doom(II) engine for such a game as you've envisioned.

Though it's an aggressive thought, I like it.  I can guarantee I alone would not be able to achieve this, it would need a team for sure with clearly defined functions to be efficient in creating something like this and of course there has to be the will for people to want to do this.

This is the point where we ask 'who out there is willing and in fact eager to be part of a team to try to create Rob's dream level(s)?'

Anyway, that's enough for now....I'm going to continue learning this editor, using the aforementioned tutorials to get me going and for now that will be enough work to get my poor old brain thinking along these lines again.  Did I mention it was about 30 years ago when I built those 2 levels?  It was.  I've also built smaller levels in Unreal Tournament, nothing spectacular but an interesting prospect.  That is far more like the AutoCad that you're thinking of Rob.  It uses subtractive builds.  You start with a block and carve out what you want to build, quite a lot of fun but very different from building Doom levels even though the end results potentially can be similar.

Anyway, back to the project of learning and getting my own house in order before I fire me.

Rob Blessin Black Hole

Hello Karate Ed: No worries, we hve to start somewhere  ,hind site lol if only I had been developing this Rob's pipe Dream Doom levels for the past 30 years! My apologies , as I wasn't assigning delegating all that stuff to you , ha , holy crap , we would need a coding army to get her done or a damn AI code bot that makes us look like we are from the dark ages lol. I think the folks over at ID would have mercy on me and yes I would make sure to ask as I think i may actually have some of there original NeXT 68K boxes floating around here , seems all NeXT hardware comes through or gets touched (refurbished) by the black hole at one point or another.
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay  [email protected] http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community  since 2/9/93

KarateEd

Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on November 28, 2023, 04:11:13 PMHello Karate Ed: No worries, we hve to start somewhere  ,hind site lol if only I had been developing this Rob's pipe Dream Doom levels for the past 30 years! My apologies , as I wasn't assigning delegating all that stuff to you , ha , holy crap , we would need a coding army to get her done or a damn AI code bot that makes us look like we are from the dark ages lol. I think the folks over at ID would have mercy on me and yes I would make sure to ask as I think i may actually have some of there original NeXT 68K boxes floating around here , seems all NeXT hardware comes through or gets touched (refurbished) by the black hole at one point or another.

Hey Rob, I wasn't suggesting that you were putting this all on me to try to do.  No one person could do it, only a team would be able to but I see HOW it could be done and you're right, it would take a while.  I think it would be the 32 levels that you would need, someone that could code the creature and other necessary shapes, schematics for those buildings you mentioned so a reasonable facsimile of them could be designed, the line thing for potential conversations.....I was just dreaming along with you buddy but it's doable, it just might take a couple years of work to achieve it.....and of course the right team mates.....also sound mods that make sense for the NeXT community......

Sometimes dreams become reality.  Have you checked out those videos yet?  They are very good actually.  The guy doing them hasn't done one in a long while, 3 years I think, but he's very good.  He should be encourage to do more but my guess is he's following his musical path, that's certainly more important.

Just by doing a teleport, I've got a faster work flow.  That's the important part, trying to get it down to doing things quite quickly then what you're suggesting is doable.

Rob Blessin Black Hole

Just by doing a teleport, I've got a faster work flow.  That's the important part, trying to get it down to doing things quite quickly then what you're suggesting is doable.
[/quote]   Yes, cool videos .....  here is the black book on Doom, where the author Fabien Langard features some NeXT hardware and I helped him out on it ! Fun stuff. https://fabiensanglard.net/gebbdoom/index.html https://fabiensanglard.net/gebbdoom/index.html I just ordered one as they are one sale on Amazon :) 
It is so difficult for me to work these days until I have the hip replacement surgery done , I can hardly stand for 10 minutes, Not looking for sympathy , it is just frustrating as I'm on my 5th orthopedic Dr. , the previous 4 would not do the operation over fear of MRSA even though I have been cleared by the infectious disease Dr. . I find out my fate December 7th lol I'm assured Dr Hug lol yes that is his real name will be able to handle this operation and should any complications develop not a problem.  Well if I wake up with one peg leg after the operation when ever it should be I'll know something went haywire lol ..... As a result I'm pacing myself to get things done, for whatever reason mainly sleep apnea they won't prescribe pain medication and because of my immune system being hammered by antibiotics , I have not had Embrel for my RA no worries I'm a tough guy and now I have doom lol ... I tried to install it from the Peanuts 3 CD onto Previous running NeXTSTEP but something is cockaroo so off to the post office to drop off my daily small packages for customers. as always working on a few NeXT systems as well .
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay  [email protected] http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community  since 2/9/93

KarateEd

Yeh Rob, you've not had an easy go and as such you've been in my prayers continually since I first told you that.

I also found a Book I have called 3D Game Alchemy for Doom, Doom II, Heretic and Hexen.  It's by Steve Benner, et al.  Don't know who that last guy is, et al.  It was put out by Sams Publishing so I've started reading it, last night as bedtime reading.

It's interesting to see what's in there compared to this editor which is pretty fantastic....but.....if you do something wrong in it, it's quite a process to correct.  Sometimes I think it's easier to start on the part that's the problem from scratch.  I've seen a few weird walls, shimmering because I got the vertices all wrong or attached something to the wrong place.  Yes it is possible to do that even in this beautiful editor.

Anyway, hope to see a couple examples of small wad files on your video feed, that would be awesome.

Rob Blessin Black Hole

QuoteAnyway, hope to see a couple examples of small wad files on your video feed, that would be awesome.
I found Doom View here https://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Software/NEXTSTEP/Apps/Games/    is really understand how all Doom is coded in the background, it is interesting , for the graphics , it looks like 3 to 10 separate tiff files, kind of like when you draw and animated figure by a slight movement on each page and then by flipping the pages , it gives the illusion of walking.  This makes sense as to how Animo worked as the cartoonists used to have to hand draw each frame 24 frames per second and Animo in NeXTstep changed everything  , from Jon Hooper one of my customers
  I may be able to simply create Tiffs using Tiffany and simply name them the same as the Doom Characters and now all of a sudden the original name is staring all new characters lol weirdly I can't get oom.app to launch or doomII , they both bomb. Am I missing something lol? If it is the actual DOOM app I probably have several hundred copies of it here on old hard drives as I have played it in the past but not sure where the install package came from ..... I'll figure it out. Also there has to be a version for Mac OS trying to figure out where the heck is and I'm not opposed to just buying lol . I might just email Carmack or Romero and point them at this madness as they may be retired and looking for something to do lol, like the 80's called and they want your game back , Are you ready to do battle, generation  Z says we have no game lol? . Ha I found DOOM for NeXT, Mac and Windows and it is free and working lol https://www.techspot.com/downloads/5847-doom.html#google_vignette  . I found out it works using the mouse lol as the keyboard playing  key option seem's worse than nintendo game controller thumb mixed with carpal tunnel .
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay  [email protected] http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community  since 2/9/93

Rob Blessin Black Hole

Port of the original Doom maps to Mac OS https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/111229-redoomed-maclinuxbsd-port-of-id-softwares-1993-doom-map-editor-for-nextstep/ however Mac OS won't open it because it can not confirm it is free of malware :( What a pain so you can over ride it
Here's how to do it:

    Control-click or right-click on the app in Finder.
    Click on Get Info.
    Choose the Override Malware Protection or Bypass Malware option.
    Enter your admin password if required.
    Check the Open Anyways and relaunch the app.

Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay  [email protected] http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community  since 2/9/93

KarateEd

Ah, all my machines are either retro, NeXT or Windows.  I have no Apples in the orchard.

I had no problem getting a teleport working, a bit more issue getting a door working but probably because I was trying something more advanced than I should be doing yet with the actual map so.....simple maps, simple techniques until I get it rolling.  It's slowly coming back but the editor is doing a few things that I'm really not quite sure is happening, like walls way to high up in the air above the ceiling but as I said, something more complicated than I should be trying yet.