A Deep Dive into Id Software's DoomEd in-house Level Editor running in NeXTSTEP

Started by Nitro, April 11, 2023, 01:08:16 PM

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Rob Blessin Black Hole

Quote from: KarateEd on November 29, 2023, 12:13:56 AMAh, all my machines are either retro, NeXT or Windows.  I have no Apples in the orchard.

I had no problem getting a teleport working, a bit more issue getting a door working but probably because I was trying something more advanced than I should be doing yet with the actual map so.....simple maps, simple techniques until I get it rolling.  It's slowly coming back but the editor is doing a few things that I'm really not quite sure is happening, like walls way to high up in the air above the ceiling but as I said, something more complicated than I should be trying yet.
So Ultimate Doom has not been ported to Mac OS and only Windows , the original NeXT Doom Tools are ported called ReDoom. I think I'm fairly good with software lol so some recommendations I would have made and I'll see if I can actually find the original tools and load them onto NeXTSTEP as I suspect they must have a tutorial or how to .... I managed to create a NeXT Map and it has a grid on it. I've taken a gander at the various panel , the tool panel is similar to cad and a lot of other basic drawing tools , however I must missing something basic as normally you pick selection  and set a start point then decide is your next move going to be a simple line lol , you pick the line but this is where they already loose me as the start point isn't set . obviously snap to grid would make it so easy . I end up having some random start point appear in my map and clicking from there makes the line go everywhere , the should and undo , that would make it easy to take a step back in your drawing.
 Obviously I was hoping the Ultimate Doom builder worked on MAC OS lol so it must be part of some evil plan to force me to install Windows on my Mac which is pretty much as close to hell on Earth for me:). Source Exists for Ultimate Doom , I'm going to start a thread to see if it can ported over to Mac OS by one of our software GURU's on the Forum for my sanity.
Rob Blessin President computerpowwow ebay  [email protected] http://www.blackholeinc.com
303-741-9998 Serving the NeXT Community  since 2/9/93

KarateEd

Quote from: Rob Blessin Black Hole on November 29, 2023, 01:05:51 AMSo Ultimate Doom has not been ported to Mac OS and only Windows , the original NeXT Doom Tools are ported called ReDoom. I think I'm fairly good with software lol so some recommendations I would have made and I'll see if I can actually find the original tools and load them onto NeXTSTEP as I suspect they must have a tutorial or how to .... I managed to create a NeXT Map and it has a grid on it. I've taken a gander at the various panel , the tool panel is similar to cad and a lot of other basic drawing tools , however I must missing something basic as normally you pick selection  and set a start point then decide is your next move going to be a simple line lol , you pick the line but this is where they already loose me as the start point isn't set . obviously snap to grid would make it so easy . I end up having some random start point appear in my map and clicking from there makes the line go everywhere , the should and undo , that would make it easy to take a step back in your drawing.
 Obviously I was hoping the Ultimate Doom builder worked on MAC OS lol so it must be part of some evil plan to force me to install Windows on my Mac which is pretty much as close to hell on Earth for me:). Source Exists for Ultimate Doom , I'm going to start a thread to see if it can ported over to Mac OS by one of our software GURU's on the Forum for my sanity.

My understanding was the ReDoom was a pretty good editor too.  Unfortunately I'm not sure if it runs similarly to Ultimate Doom Builder.

For me to start anything basically I have to select one of the modes, usually lindefmode and then double mouse click on the point where I want to make my first line.  I could also use something like Draw Rectangle Mode to achieve a square box if that's what I want.

To place a start player I have to choose Things mode and double left click on the screen within my map to place it.  I left click it once and it turns green meaning it's been set.

On the level I'm working on right now I've got a door a couple rooms and a third room that will teleport to the other door connected rooms.  I'm just playing right now to try to get familiar enough with the editor to do something useable.  It's playable, very simple so far but haven't done the teleport yet.  That won't really take me very long.  I'll probably keep referring to the videos until I have it down pat, it's also helping me develop a good work flow with the editor.

I thought I saw something for Apple with Ultimate Doom Builder.  Maybe I am mis-remembering.

KarateEd

I was trying to add an image but it wants a URL.  The image is on my computer and when I try to link to that it's not too happy.

Ah well.......I'm sure I'm missing something simple.  Anyway, kind of tired so me and my pussy cat have to get to bed.

Did this version not work for you?

https://zdoom.org/downloads

There is a Mac version there but I'm about as conversant in Mac as you are in Windows.

KarateEd

#33
Here is the beginnings of a small wad file that has a teleporter, door and only a few monsters in such large rooms.  I'll be adding other things over the next few days but here's where I'm at.  It's boring, far from finished and still lots of things that I'm thinking about doing to make it interesting but it gives you an idea where my mind is at.

Edit:  Ok folks, you can still walk unharmed in the first 2 parts of the map but.....not so much in the last part of the map.  It's starting to take a bit of shape, nothing special yet but you may struggle getting through the last part of this wad.

While going through this wad, please do so with an eye to detail in case I've messed up a texture alignment.  Also any other suggestions will be gratefully received if there is something you would like me to do in a certain area.  It's been a long time since I've done this and my brain is a bit on the old and slow side but I'm enjoying this so far.  I have fixed one texture alignment in the last room under the overhang coming out of the big room.  Notice the lighting is very smooth in it's transition from that room to the 'open' area.

KarateEd

So, I am very rusty at doing this but this editor is sweet.  There is a ton of stuff that I have to learn about making wad files but it's coming along.

I think I've finished the + section of the wad am I'm now working on the 3 part of the wad.  I have to focus them on them one at a time to try to finish it by the 10th of this month at which time I will post the final wad here for anyone that might want to try it.  it's not going to be fantastic considering how much I have yet to learn on creating scintillating wads but it will be somewhat decent and hopefully without any silly errors in it.

I have sometimes had to recreate elements of the wad (mostly doors) because they for some reason failed after they had been working.  I'm also sometimes feeling the pain of not have all the segments properly co-ordinated which can be fun to try to sort out but I think I've managed so far anyway.  I'm trying to make sure lighting looks good but that's something that's subjective, what I think looks good might not in other's eyes.

I'm being my own tester right now which we all know that's a good starting point but this is a small wad, 3 small sections so that limits also what you can do.  There really isn't time for me to do anything bigger and have it ready for the 10th so I hope you will all enjoy it once it's done.

Ed...... :-)

KarateEd

#35
Just dragged a lindef by accident to a wrong place and had to reconstruct one of my switch/door assemblies because of it.  I didn't know I'd done it until I went in to play the wad and my door and switch were no longer there.  Twas a pain.

Edit:  This and more has been straightened out.  One has to be very careful, especially with lindefs because they can really cause a lot of havoc.

Anyway, almost done the 3 now and will have the center one to do an it's done.....

Ed...... :-)

Edit: I have finished the outside 2 portions of the wad, just the '0' to do now.  I have some thoughts on it.

Ed...... :-)

Almost done, just have to try to make easy, middle and hard modes......don't really know how to do that yet.

Edit:  I'm almost done.  I have about 1/3 the '0' area to manipulate into something useful and it will be finished for consumption.

Ed...... :-)

KarateEd

#36
Ok Folks,

The wad file is ready.  It does have difficulty levels.  Don't try nightmare mode, you will only last a few seconds if you do.  Unless you're really lousy at Doom, you shouldn't play easy either, it's just too easy but then I've played this a thousand times it seems now so it may only be easy to me.  I just wanted to give you guys options.  I would play it in Hurt Me Plenty mode as that's where I think it's best for a challenge but not impossible.  just to let you know, I've created a video for my daughter but won't post it here as it gives everything away.  She doesn't have Doom2 so won't be playing it.  I want people to have fun trying to solve this wad.


KarateEd

So Nitro, did you try the wad out and if so, what do you think?  You can be honest with me, I worked in IT therefore it stands to reason that I have a thick skull.

Ed...... :-)

Nitro

Quote from: KarateEd on December 06, 2023, 05:38:55 PMSo Nitro, did you try the wad out and if so, what do you think?  You can be honest with me, I worked in IT therefore it stands to reason that I have a thick skull.

Ed...... :-)
Hi Ed,
   I'm afraid to admit that I'm trying to figure out how to run a custom wad file. My DOOM and DOOM II floppy's are not readable any longer, so I purchased The Ultimate DOOM, Final DOOM, and DOOM II with Master Levels a while back from GOG.com, but I haven't set up a launcher to allow me to specify a custom wad file. My memory of running DOOM is pretty rusty. I'll get it figured out eventually (dosbox on Windows 10). I'm looking forward to trying out your level.
Nitro

KarateEd

Quote from: Nitro on December 06, 2023, 08:16:48 PMHi Ed,
   I'm afraid to admit that I'm trying to figure out how to run a custom wad file. My DOOM and DOOM II floppy's are not readable any longer, so I purchased The Ultimate DOOM, Final DOOM, and DOOM II with Master Levels a while back from GOG.com, but I haven't set up a launcher to allow me to specify a custom wad file. My memory of running DOOM is pretty rusty. I'll get it figured out eventually (dosbox on Windows 10). I'm looking forward to trying out your level.

You could just go and get Ultimate Doom Builder and run it through that.  That's what I did then you don't have to mess with DosBox......It's got instructions with it and wasn't that difficult.......and then you've also got an editor which allows you to join in the fun.

I also use GZDoom with it.  It's used to run your test wads in the configuration.  Pretty easy really.


btw, I also bought those off GOG.

Nitro

Quote from: KarateEd on December 06, 2023, 11:49:32 PMYou could just go and get Ultimate Doom Builder and run it through that.  That's what I did then you don't have to mess with DosBox......It's got instructions with it and wasn't that difficult.......and then you've also got an editor which allows you to join in the fun.

I also use GZDoom with it.  It's used to run your test wads in the configuration.  Pretty easy really.


btw, I also bought those off GOG.

I'll give that a try. Long term I'd like to find a port that will allow a higher resolution as the original DOOM can make me a little queasy. I'm not sure why as I've played Quake III Arena pretty consistently since it was released in 1999 and I don't have any issues with that. Thanks for the information.
Nitro

KarateEd

Quote from: Nitro on December 07, 2023, 09:20:42 AMI'll give that a try. Long term I'd like to find a port that will allow a higher resolution as the original DOOM can make me a little queasy. I'm not sure why as I've played Quake III Arena pretty consistently since it was released in 1999 and I don't have any issues with that. Thanks for the information.

You're most welcome.  When I was playing Doom at the low res I had exactly the same problem.  I have a Meta Quest 2 VR headset and used to have some 'sea sickness' but got over it quickly but Doom lowres is still queasy for me.

If you have any problems with getting this going (it really is pretty easy though) let me know and I'll see if there is any way I can help with it.

The resolution on this is pretty good, GZDoom is a take-of of ZDoom which came out with that higher resolution so it should take away the willies for you.

nuss

Hi @KarateEd , thanks a lot for your level, I enjoyed it a lot and reached the end with 100% kills and zero ammo left, exactly as it should be ;D

As there are no spoiler tags in the forum, I can not really tell what I liked the most, but have to say, that the level looks very polished and professional.

For those who have issues to start the map (like I had), I have attached Ed's original map saved to slot MAP01 (in Eureka editor), so that you can play the level with command-line similar to this:

zdoom -4 -iwad iwads/2v19/doom2.wad -file ~/30D-MAP01.wad -skill 4
Cheers, nuss

30D-MAP01.wad
DON'T PANIC

KarateEd

Quote from: nuss on December 07, 2023, 01:25:42 PMHi @KarateEd , thanks a lot for your level, I enjoyed it a lot and reached the end with 100% kills and zero ammo left, exactly as it should be ;D

As there are no spoiler tags in the forum, I can not really tell what I liked the most, but have to say, that the level looks very polished and professional.

For those who have issues to start the map (like I had), I have attached Ed's original map saved to slot MAP01 (in Eureka editor), so that you can play the level with command-line similar to this:

zdoom -4 -iwad iwads/2v19/doom2.wad -file ~/30D-MAP01.wad -skill 4
Cheers, nuss

30D-MAP01.wad

Glad you like it Nuss.  Thanks for the very nice compliments.

It's a ways from professional but there is a little imagination in it for what few of the tools of the editor I used.  It's been at least 25 years since I last did any maps and even that was with a different, much clunkier editor.

There really wasn't much time to get it done by the 10th and I surprised myself in getting it done early but you guys deserve a little Doom fun and I'm glad to have been able to supply a bit anyway.

So, how many tries did it take you to get through the level and I'm guessing skill 4 is the 2nd hardest level?  Were you a 'sometimes' Doom player in the day or were you a fanatic (like me)?

nuss

Hi KarateEd,

"skill 4" is "Ultra-Violence", which let me die about 15 times before I was able to reach the end switch. And indeed I was quite an extensive Doom player (many years ago), especially tried to find and play through every custom level for Doom 1/2 ;)
DON'T PANIC